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  1. Back To Top    #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland_of_Eld View Post
    Like most people here, I am currently re-watching the series from the beginning and picking up on all little bits and pieces. Clearly, Carl was crying because he had just figured out that his "Cool Uncle" had been diddling his mom the whole time!

    "...and I thought Shane was always in the tent so early because he was eager to take me out and spend time with me! Now it makes sense why he never had his clothers on!"



    What counts as premeditated? As Rick said to Lori; he knew what Shane was doing... he could've stopped it. But instead he let him keep leading him out. "I wanted it over. I wanted him dead." I was always unsure after I first watched the ep, as Rick talks Shane down, and Shane lowers his gun; possibly seeing sense. Maybe Rick got through to him, and he realised how far he'd gone?

    So it's debatable whether it was premeditated on Rick's part or whether it could be classed as self-defense. I guess we'll never know for sure whether Shane had given up, or whether he would've still posed a threat. Which is what I love about it; it's a massive grey area. :)
    that is your opinion. No, I am pretty confident that Rick (and I think this applies to most of the people on this forum) killed Shane out of self-defense and nothing more. I don't this is grey at all. I don't like grey areas at all. Besides, sometimes people make it look like they are lowering their gun only to shoot there enemy seconds later. I saw it in the 3rd episode of Arrow Season 1. Oliver (as the Hood) is fighting Deadshot at the end of the episode he lowers his gun making it look like he quit only keep on firing it again. I'm pretty confident Shane was doing the same thing here. He was lowering it only to fire it soon after.

  2. Back To Top    #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland_of_Eld View Post
    Like most people here, I am currently re-watching the series from the beginning and picking up on all little bits and pieces. Clearly, Carl was crying because he had just figured out that his "Cool Uncle" had been diddling his mom the whole time!

    "...and I thought Shane was always in the tent so early because he was eager to take me out and spend time with me! Now it makes sense why he never had his clothers on!"



    What counts as premeditated? As Rick said to Lori; he knew what Shane was doing... he could've stopped it. But instead he let him keep leading him out. "I wanted it over. I wanted him dead." I was always unsure after I first watched the ep, as Rick talks Shane down, and Shane lowers his gun; possibly seeing sense. Maybe Rick got through to him, and he realised how far he'd gone?

    So it's debatable whether it was premeditated on Rick's part or whether it could be classed as self-defense. I guess we'll never know for sure whether Shane had given up, or whether he would've still posed a threat. Which is what I love about it; it's a massive grey area. :)
    I saw it as murder but at the same time I don't think Shane would've stopped. He could've been trying to fool Rick into thinking he made him see the light, only to shoot him as they walk to the house together. We'll never know for sure though, like you said, and that's good for the story in a way.

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    I think Shane had finally gone over the edge in that last scene. He might have been able to talk him down for a spell but Shane would have eventually planned to get rid of Rick. Even if he had exiled Shane, that would have eaten away at him and I think Shane would have worked to find him. That would have been totally humiliating. If Rick hadn't killed Shane, eventually Shane would have killed him. That makes it self defense.

    I felt Carl was crying because he just heard his dad had killed him. I don't know if Carl ever figured out the details or not... he seemed to have gone against Lori in season 3, siding with dad even if he didn't know the cause of their "feud." That also could have been pre-puberty angst and pulling away from mom.

  4. Back To Top    #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christ2010Grad View Post
    that is your opinion. No, I am pretty confident that Rick (and I think this applies to most of the people on this forum) killed Shane out of self-defense and nothing more. I don't this is grey at all. I don't like grey areas at all. Besides, sometimes people make it look like they are lowering their gun only to shoot there enemy seconds later. I saw it in the 3rd episode of Arrow Season 1. Oliver (as the Hood) is fighting Deadshot at the end of the episode he lowers his gun making it look like he quit only keep on firing it again. I'm pretty confident Shane was doing the same thing here. He was lowering it only to fire it soon after.
    What part is my opinion? I'm confused. Yes, sometimes people lower their guns, only to shoot a few seconds later, as evidenced in "Arrow", but just because it's a cliched thing in TV/Film, doesn't mean it will happen every time. I've given no opinion above, I've just said how it is:

    Rick knew what Shane was doing.
    He allowed him to continue.
    Rick talked Shane down.
    Whilst his guard was down, Rick stabbed Shane.
    We don't know if Shane would have still fired - fact.
    We don't know if it could have played out any other way.

    I'm a huge Grimes fan, btw. But it was premeditated. Rick even said as much to Lori. What you are talking about, is when unexpectedly someone comes at you with a gun or a knife. Or a shoe. I've seen that happen in a film before, so I guess it's a possibility. It's premeditated because once Rick realised where Shane was leading him, he would have considered whether to stop it or not, and then made the decision to talk him down, then kill him when he didn't expect it. Premeditated; nothing else you can call it, since you don't like grey :)


    But I do also think it was self-defense, in the grander scheme of things. I honestly don't believe Shane would have raised his gun again after Rick talked him down, and I don't think he could've gone through with it. This time. He was still wresting with too much. But sooner or later it would come. And for Rick that means sleeping with one eye open. Rick wouldn't be able to do it if he had no choice, and with Shane it had become not a question of "if", but "when".

    So it can be interpreted as either murder, or self-defense. The truth is there are elements of both in there. Admitted by the man himself. :)

  5. Back To Top    #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland_of_Eld View Post
    What part is my opinion? I'm confused. Yes, sometimes people lower their guns, only to shoot a few seconds later, as evidenced in "Arrow", but just because it's a cliched thing in TV/Film, doesn't mean it will happen every time. I've given no opinion above, I've just said how it is:

    Rick knew what Shane was doing.
    He allowed him to continue.
    Rick talked Shane down.
    Whilst his guard was down, Rick stabbed Shane.
    We don't know if Shane would have still fired - fact.
    We don't know if it could have played out any other way.

    I'm a huge Grimes fan, btw. But it was premeditated. Rick even said as much to Lori. What you are talking about, is when unexpectedly someone comes at you with a gun or a knife. Or a shoe. I've seen that happen in a film before, so I guess it's a possibility. It's premeditated because once Rick realised where Shane was leading him, he would have considered whether to stop it or not, and then made the decision to talk him down, then kill him when he didn't expect it. Premeditated; nothing else you can call it, since you don't like grey :)


    But I do also think it was self-defense, in the grander scheme of things. I honestly don't believe Shane would have raised his gun again after Rick talked him down, and I don't think he could've gone through with it. This time. He was still wresting with too much. But sooner or later it would come. And for Rick that means sleeping with one eye open. Rick wouldn't be able to do it if he had no choice, and with Shane it had become not a question of "if", but "when".

    So it can be interpreted as either murder, or self-defense. The truth is there are elements of both in there. Admitted by the man himself. :)
    I am still convinced that Shane was trying to fool Rick into thinking he had gotten through to him only to kill shortly after that. I also believe that while walking through the woods Rick was suspicious of what Shane was trying to lead him and when they got out into the field he concluded what Shane was trying to do and at that point it was too late to turn back. I truly think this was a kill or be killed situation for Rick. He realized Shane was trying to kill him when they got out to the field.

  6. Back To Top    #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christ2010Grad View Post
    I am still convinced that Shane was trying to fool Rick into thinking he had gotten through to him only to kill shortly after that. I also believe that while walking through the woods Rick was suspicious of what Shane was trying to lead him and when they got out into the field he concluded what Shane was trying to do and at that point it was too late to turn back. I truly think this was a kill or be killed situation for Rick. He realized Shane was trying to kill him when they got out to the field.
    I can't agree or disagree with you about Shane; it's only opinion, and as I said I'll never know. But what Rick did was premeditated, and I'm not sure how you can theorize about that given that Rick told Lori exactly that?! Rick is my favourite character, but I love all characters and it is what it is. They all do good things and bad things, they all make mistakes, it makes them human. I don't get trying to justify a character by denying something they admitted :)

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