Forgot your password?

Forgot your username?


Page 1 of 72 1231151 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 712
  1. Back To Top    #1
    Status
    Offline
    Banned User CheekylilFantail's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Gender
    Female
    Posts
    442
    Threads
    7
    Mentioned
    23 Post(s)
    Points
    407
    Level
    14

    Rick Debate Thread: LOVE AND HATE

    We can talk about the things that we like and the things that we don't about Rick as well as his controversial decisions.

    I'll start...

    As many of you know, Rick is one of my favourite characters but he has made some decisions that I disagree with. First decision I disagreed with was deciding to execute Randall without a fair trial. Rick basically saved his life to kill him later. Second decision I disagreed with was how initially Rick tortured Michonne to get info out of her which I thought was completely unnecessary because I hate man-handling of women (Those who have visited the Richonne thread know this well) but I understand that he was on board the 'crazy train' so he can be forgiven for that. The third decision I disagreed with was him even thinking about handing Michonne over to the Governor. He knew how evil the Governor was and yet he still considered it. The answer should have been a straight out no, IMO.

    I love me some Rick because he tries as hard as he can to make the best decisions for the most amount of people. As a partial consequentialist myself, I respect that. I also love how he would do anything to keep his children safe. He's a great father. He's also loyal, intelligent, honest and willing to listen to other people's opinions.

    Let's have a mature discussion and please remember to attack argument points not people.

  2. Back To Top    #2
    Status
    Offline
    Banned User ElJacko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Florida
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    13,176
    Threads
    62
    Mentioned
    494 Post(s)
    Points
    1,190
    Level
    42
    Rick shot two guys in the bar after telling them he heard Nebraska's nice. Badass.




  3. Back To Top    #3
    Status
    Offline
    Governor Princess Char's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Gender
    Female
    Posts
    4,867
    Threads
    23
    Mentioned
    256 Post(s)
    Points
    696
    Level
    31
    Before I didn't particularly care about Rick but after 4b I've found myself finally rooting for Rick and caring about him. The worst part is after watching AL on TTD I had to start liking Rick. AL seems like such a fun guy. Rick has made decisions I'm not fond of like not consulting the council for banishing Carol or the whole handing Michonne thing over. Rick is our lead man, though so to enjoy the show to the fullest I think we've gotta have some feeling for him.

  4. Back To Top    #4
    Status
    Offline
    Governor Christ2010Grad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    8,639
    Threads
    136
    Mentioned
    339 Post(s)
    Points
    15,303
    Level
    37
    Quote Originally Posted by CheekylilFantail View Post
    We can talk about the things that we like and the things that we don't about Rick as well as his controversial decisions.

    I'll start...

    As many of you know, Rick is one of my favourite characters but he has made some decisions that I disagree with. First decision I disagreed with was deciding to execute Randall without a fair trial. Rick basically saved his life to kill him later. Second decision I disagreed with was how initially Rick tortured Michonne to get info out of her which I thought was completely unnecessary because I hate man-handling of women (Those who have visited the Richonne thread know this well) but I understand that he was on board the 'crazy train' so he can be forgiven for that. The third decision I disagreed with was him even thinking about handing Michonne over to the Governor. He knew how evil the Governor was and yet he still considered it. The answer should have been a straight out no, IMO.

    I love me some Rick because he tries as hard as he can to make the best decisions for the most amount of people. As a partial consequentialist myself, I respect that. I also love how he would do anything to keep his children safe. He's a great father. He's also loyal, intelligent, honest and willing to listen to other people's opinions.

    Let's have a mature discussion and please remember to attack argument points not people.
    Wasn't Dale trying to convince everyone to spare this kid? Was there not a discussion in Hershel's house about what to do with him. That as far as I'm concerned is a fair trial! I am on board with Rick in killing that kid. Letting him go would mean that if Randall found his old group, he would lead them back to the farm and it would be a massacre. I think Rick had the right idea there.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by chartlesaur View Post
    Before I didn't particularly care about Rick but after 4b I've found myself finally rooting for Rick and caring about him. The worst part is after watching AL on TTD I had to start liking Rick. AL seems like such a fun guy. Rick has made decisions I'm not fond of like not consulting the council for banishing Carol or the whole handing Michonne thing over. Rick is our lead man, though so to enjoy the show to the fullest I think we've gotta have some feeling for him.
    What council? There was no council when Rick made that decision. Glenn and Sasha were sick. Daryl was on a run and Hershel was busy helping the sick. No one else could be consulted for that decision and Rick probably knew that bringing her back to the prison would divide the group in an unimaginable way. So he did the best thing possible.

    As for Michonne, Merle knew that Rick did not have the balls for that sort of depravity. He was right. He changed his mind and decided not to hand her over to the Governor.

  5. Back To Top    #5
    Status
    Offline
    Banned User CheekylilFantail's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Gender
    Female
    Posts
    442
    Threads
    7
    Mentioned
    23 Post(s)
    Points
    407
    Level
    14
    Quote Originally Posted by chartlesaur View Post
    Before I didn't particularly care about Rick but after 4b I've found myself finally rooting for Rick and caring about him. The worst part is after watching AL on TTD I had to start liking Rick. AL seems like such a fun guy. Rick has made decisions I'm not fond of like not consulting the council for banishing Carol or the whole handing Michonne thing over. Rick is our lead man, though so to enjoy the show to the fullest I think we've gotta have some feeling for him.
    AL is a sweetheart. I adore him! I agree with you on the Michonne part however I cannot agree with the Carol part of your argument. The logic is flawed in that argument in the Carol situation. You assume that the group at that time was run by a counsel so following along those lines every major decision has got to be run by the council, right? So by ur logic then Carol should have approached the council and asked them before she murdered Karen and David. But she didn't, she instead took things into her own hands. You can have it one of two ways, either every one approaches the council before they make a big decision or no one does. One cannot condemn Rick for making his banishment decision without also condemning Carol for making her murder decision as well
    as educating the children on weaponry. Fair is fair. To further push the argument I propose that if Carol didn't ask for permission to murder, why should Rick ask permission to banish?

    Anyway, I found Rick to be completely justified in banishing Carol for entirely different reasons.


    Quote Originally Posted by Christ2010Grad View Post
    Wasn't Dale trying to convince everyone to spare this kid? Was there not a discussion in Hershel's house about what to do with him. That as far as I'm concerned is a fair trial! I am on board with Rick in killing that kid. Letting him go would mean that if Randall found his old group, he would lead them back to the farm and it would be a massacre. I think Rick had the right idea there.
    Ahhh Christ2010Grad, I was waiting for you to show up. :)

    I don't think it was a fair trial considering you had Dale as the lone person trying to convince an entire group not to execute someone. People are highly susceptible to coercion and peer pressure esp in a group situation. That was a kangaroo court not a fair trial. Not to mention you had Carol who didn't want to make any decision and Lori who was 'fine' with whatever decision Rick made.

    I also don't think it's fair to kill someone based on what they may or may not do (this is exactly my point in the Carol situation but that's for another thread) and because they are a potential threat instead of a direct one. If the reasons for killing Randall were for past offences like him trying to kill them, I'd find it justifiable (although I'd still disagree) but then I'd have to question why Rick didn't just leave him to die when he found him impaled on that fence or whatever?

    Because the execution was based on Randall could do in the future rather than what he did in the past, it is not a fair trial. But with that being said I do understand the reasons why Rick decided to execute him. I just don't agree with them. A man or woman may be judged and/or condemned on the actions they have done in the past rather than the actions that they may or may not do in the future.

    Also if some one could shed some light on why Rick was considering handing Michonne over to the Governor, I'd really appreciate it cos I just don't understand why he did that and I'd like to.

  6. Back To Top    #6
    Status
    Offline
    Problem Child honeyconcha's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    AR
    Gender
    Female
    Posts
    164
    Threads
    2
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Points
    551
    Level
    8
    Great thread idea CheekylilFantail. I love Rick too but there have been times I didn't agree with him.

    Decisions I didn't agree with:
    Meeka just made a great point in the Michonne thread that I completely agreed with was I never got why Rick was so flat out non trusting of Michonne when they were trying to escape Woodbury and they lost Daryl in the process. She helped you get there in the first place and saved your tail while you were trying to get to the place why in the world would you not try to at least work with her was beyond me. I also didn't get the reasoning behind selling out Michonne to Phillip to avoid a war you knew he was going to start anyway. Ok basically Rick's decisions and interactions with Michonne during season 3 I didn't like or understand at all save the Clear episode.

    I will never for the life of me understand why he didn't make any attempt to let Ty and Sasha stay at the prison. I know he was in crazy town but that decision just didn't make any sense. You just escaped hostile territory and lost one of you strongest fighters/allies (Daryl) why he didn't let them stay there didn't make sense.

    The Randall situation you said it all for me above CheekylilFantail.

    I didn't agree with Rick's decision to banish Carol without talking to the council first. Even though some were out on a run and others sick Hershel the wisest of them all was still available to talk to and get help from. He had no business banishing her without the councils knowledge. Yes what she did was wrong and they probably would have banished her anyway but that was not Rick's decision to make alone at the time.

    I didn't agree with Rick's decision to go to the CDC. I know he just came out of the coma and didn't really grasp what had happened during the ZA but I wouldn't have gone to the CDC and I wouldn't have followed Shane to Ft. Hood either this was when they should have gotten the group together to try to come up with a better place to go to for shelter.



    Decisions I did agree with:
    Not letting Merle come to the prison when they escaped Woodbury. I was not mad at Rick at all for this call. I wouldn't have let Merle come back either so see ya Daryl you two be careful out there.

    When Rick told the group after the farm went down either go out on your own or do as I say. It was harsh it was cruel but it was necessary. Everyone had an opinion but unlike Rick no one actually stepped up and did anything they just sat around and talked about what they needed or wanted to do. Rick was right either shape up or ship out we have got to survive this and we will survive by doing what I say and as we saw the majority of the time this worked.

    I don't know if this is a decision per say but I did agree with Rick's attempt at negotating with Brian when he came with Woodbury 2.0 to the prison. I would have told him we can live together too even if he didn't mean it. I too would have said and done anything to try and save Hershel and Michonne, and stalled Brian to let the others escape as well.

    I was on Rick's side when he choose to keep the Jenner secret from the group. I thought he saw the group wouldn't be able to handle that revealtion at the time and I also think he didn't really trust that Jenner had told him the truth so I thought he making sure this secret Jenner told him was true before telling the group was a good decision. Shane was out of control all ready and then add this news on top of that I think Rick made the right call.

  7. Back To Top    #7
    Status
    Offline
    Sharpshooter Quiet One's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Australia
    Gender
    Female
    Posts
    2,063
    Threads
    0
    Mentioned
    52 Post(s)
    Points
    1,534
    Level
    19
    Quote Originally Posted by honeyconcha View Post
    I didn't agree with Rick's decision to banish Carol without talking to the council first. Even though some were out on a run and others sick Hershel the wisest of them all was still available to talk to and get help from. He had no business banishing her without the councils knowledge. Yes what she did was wrong and they probably would have banished her anyway but that was not Rick's decision to make alone at the time.
    Agreed. I don't see why he couldn't have just stayed quiet about it until Daryl got back from the run and/or Glenn & Sasha were well enough to resume their places on the council. Then Rick could have told them what she'd confessed to & all of them worked out what to do about it together. Carol killed Karen & David to try to stop the disease from spreading (for the record, I understand her motives but don't agree with what she did), which clearly didn't work. She therefore had no reason to kill anyone else and so wasn't a danger. And if Rick really didn't trust her he could have just stashed her in a cell for a couple of days.

    I also didn't like what nearly happened with Randall (agree with what CheekylilFantail said) or planning to give up Michonne to the Governor.

    Don't get me wrong, I like Rick a lot. But he's made some questionable decisions.

  8. Back To Top    #8
    Status
    Offline
    Governor Christ2010Grad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    8,639
    Threads
    136
    Mentioned
    339 Post(s)
    Points
    15,303
    Level
    37
    Quote Originally Posted by honeyconcha View Post
    Meeka just made a great point in the Michonne thread that I completely agreed with was I never got why Rick was so flat out non trusting of Michonne when they were trying to escape Woodbury and they lost Daryl in the process. She helped you get there in the first place and saved your tail while you were trying to get to the place why in the world would you not try to at least work with her was beyond me.
    Michonne ditched them while they were in Woodbury. Yeah, Michonne brought baby formula and led them into Woodbury to rescue Glenn and Maggie, but he did not know if she had ulterior motives. However, I think Jamrock89 says it better than I do so I'll put her post here:

    Quote Originally Posted by jamrock89 View Post

    Andrew starting the chaos at the prison that led to T-Dog and Lori's death...all those things caused Rick to completely shut down and become this "cold and unsteady" person as Andrea put it. Rick didn't trust anyone because he didn't want a repeat of history to happen. Can you blame him? Although Michonne came to the prison with baby formula and led them to Woodbury to rescue Glenn/Maggie he didn't know if she had ulterior motives. She also ditched them which made him believe that she had some other priority. There are no rules, no law enforcement, no governing body. Take the rules of civilization away and people become animals. There is no check or consequences for human actions. Trust is hard to gain in the real world, I can only imagine what it would be like in a world like the Walking Dead. Rick was right to be wary of her.
    You can't put any blame on Rick for initially for being non-trusting of Michonne after what happened to Lori.

    Quote Originally Posted by honeyconcha View Post
    I will never for the life of me understand why he didn't make any attempt to let Ty and Sasha stay at the prison. I know he was in crazy town but that decision just didn't make any sense. You just escaped hostile territory and lost one of you strongest fighters/allies (Daryl) why he didn't let them stay there didn't make sense.
    He was going to let them stay. Hershel convinced him to do so. If he did not start hallucinating it would not have happened. Also keep in mind that there were 2 people in the group that were NOT trustworthy (Ben and Allen were thinking about removing him and the other prison residents so they could have it for themselves)



    Quote Originally Posted by honeyconcha View Post
    I didn't agree with Rick's decision to banish Carol without talking to the council first. Even though some were out on a run and others sick Hershel the wisest of them all was still available to talk to and get help from. He had no business banishing her without the councils knowledge. Yes what she did was wrong and they probably would have banished her anyway but that was not Rick's decision to make alone at the time.
    I give you this quote from Cheekylilfantail:

    Quote Originally Posted by CheekylilFantail View Post
    Fair is fair. To further push the argument I propose that if Carol didn't ask for permission to murder, why should Rick ask permission to banish?

    Anyway, I found Rick to be completely justified in banishing Carol for entirely different reasons.
    Also, Hershel was busy helping the sick and ill. He was not available at that time (not to mention that he could die in the process). Secondly, bringing her back would divide the prison badly. Also you said in the thread, "Was Rick right to leave Carol behind?" (here's the link if you have no clue what I'm referring to: http://spoilthedead.com/forum/showth...e-Carol/page11) that he made the right call

    Quote Originally Posted by honeyconcha View Post
    Yes Rick made the right call. I am shocked like so many others about Carol's actions, but if she cared so much about the group like she said she does then why sit back and watch Daryl and Rick fight Tyreese for what she believed needed to be done? Her skills or value that she had brought to the group means nothing if you can't be trusted.
    Stick with the opinion you first made please.



    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by CheekylilFantail View Post
    I don't think it was a fair trial considering you had Dale as the lone person trying to convince an entire group not to execute someone. People are highly susceptible to coercion and peer pressure esp in a group situation. That was a kangaroo court not a fair trial. Not to mention you had Carol who didn't want to make any decision and Lori who was 'fine' with whatever decision Rick made.

    I also don't think it's fair to kill someone based on what they may or may not do (this is exactly my point in the Carol situation but that's for another thread) and because they are a potential threat instead of a direct one. If the reasons for killing Randall were for past offences like him trying to kill them, I'd find it justifiable (although I'd still disagree) but then I'd have to question why Rick didn't just leave him to die when he found him impaled on that fence or whatever?

    Because the execution was based on Randall could do in the future rather than what he did in the past, it is not a fair trial. But with that being said I do understand the reasons why Rick decided to execute him. I just don't agree with them. A man or woman may be judged and/or condemned on the actions they have done in the past rather than the actions that they may or may not do in the future.

    Also if some one could shed some light on why Rick was considering handing Michonne over to the Governor, I'd really appreciate it cos I just don't understand why he did that and I'd like to.
    For one thing, he was shooting at them along with the rest of the group as they were trying to leave the bar. That seems proof enough that he was a threat and his loyalties were to his old group. As for Rick thinking about handing over Michonne, I just think he was desperate to stop a war from starting.

  9. Back To Top    #9
    Status
    Offline
    Problem Child angeluxy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Gender
    Female
    Posts
    187
    Threads
    1
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Points
    683
    Level
    9
    Rick is not a perfect man, has had hits and misses but that does not make him a bad man, that makes it a human being and that's what I like about him.

  10. Back To Top    #10
    Status
    Offline
    Governor Christ2010Grad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    8,639
    Threads
    136
    Mentioned
    339 Post(s)
    Points
    15,303
    Level
    37
    Quote Originally Posted by Quiet One View Post
    Agreed. I don't see why he couldn't have just stayed quiet about it until Daryl got back from the run and/or Glenn & Sasha were well enough to resume their places on the council. Then Rick could have told them what she'd confessed to & all of them worked out what to do about it together. Carol killed Karen & David to try to stop the disease from spreading (for the record, I understand her motives but don't agree with what she did), which clearly didn't work. She therefore had no reason to kill anyone else and so wasn't a danger. And if Rick really didn't trust her he could have just stashed her in a cell for a couple of days.
    Firstly, I'm sure that with the mindset Carol displayed in the episode Indifference, she would have killed anyone (including Glenn or Sasha) who displayed symptoms of the virus if it meant stopping it. Secondly, I don't think Rick would have been able to keep quiet (not that he was going to). Thirdly, what Daryl and the group never returned that night? And when would Glenn and Sasha be healthy enough to resume their place at the council? You have to keep that in mind. Fourthly, bringing back Carol would have caused an enormous upheaval. There would have been those who would have wanted her dead and threatening to leave, there would have been those who would have wanted her to stay & locked up and those would want her gone.

    Lastly, let's all add in the fact that there were walkers at the fence which needed to be taken care of and the Governor showed up by surprise the next day. Carol would have been forgotten in the ensuing chaos.The fences, invading walkers, and taking care of the sick had to be their priorities and there were only the three of them available to deal with that at that point. When Daryl and the others got back, treating the sick had to be the priority and I don't see anything changing in terms of how that went down. Hershel would still want a break and go with Michonne so they would still get captured. Rick would tell Daryl and they would go look for Tyreese, but they would still be interrupted by the governor showing up before any real discussion could take place or any decision could be made. The battle still takes place which results in her dying at the hands of the walkers or some of the tank blasts. So if you think about it, banishing Carol was a merciful act on Rick's part and it's good that he didn't wait for the council to be restored.

Page 1 of 72 1231151 ... LastLast

Related Topics

  1. The ty die hate no love thread .
    By TheeBadOne in forum Tyreese
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: June 6th, 2016, 03:29 AM
  2. Rick HATE Thread (No Love Please)
    By PumpkinFries in forum Rick Criticism
    Replies: 98
    Last Post: May 26th, 2016, 05:52 PM
  3. Joe Love Thread (No Hate Please)
    By DanNintendoMan in forum Table Scraps
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: March 26th, 2016, 08:37 PM
  4. Daryl Love Thread (NO HATE)
    By Aireabella in forum Daryl Appreciation
    Replies: 1000
    Last Post: March 31st, 2015, 10:30 AM
  5. Replies: 999
    Last Post: June 23rd, 2014, 10:43 AM

Spoil The Dead is the largest & number one fansite for AMC's The Walking Dead & Fear The Walking Dead, Image Comic's The Walking Dead, and the Telltale Games. Offering spoilers, games, and community to fans & zombie enthusiasts.