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  1. Back To Top    #11
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    Governor Christ2010Grad's Avatar
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    Hopefully this theme will become more manifested in different ways in this episode and the next one.

  2. Back To Top    #12
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    Codas, codas everywhere HonkyTonkWoman's Avatar

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    Hmmm.

    I think many characters are finding that they have become what they had to in the new reality.

    Rick-after killing Joe and later Gareth found out that he had to uncover his ruthless side that he had tried to suppress with Hershel's guidance. I think this was a carryover from last season. When he offered to follow Carol, I saw it as acknowledging that her pragmatic point of view may be what is needed.

    With Carl I see him realizing that he needs to be a parent and give Carl guidance but he can't just shelter him and insist he not be a part of the larger world. Carl is never going to go back to being just a kid any more than Rick will be just a farmer.

    Michonne has realized that she had closed herself off from her past and tried to focus on just fighting (which she did very well) but her nurturing of Carl (and opening up about Andre to him) showed her that she can be more than that. I look forward to seeing that part of her character develop,

    Daryl has become a man finally and is focusing on bringing Carol back as she had done for him in the past.

    Carol feels she has become someone who cannot be accepted for what she had to do since her efforts to save Lizzie and Mika (and make up for Sophia) ended up not succeeding, but I think eventually she'll get to the point where she's able to forgive herself and accept the support of others.

    Tyreese is going to have to accept that he must become a fighter (since he's afraid of that part of himself). Sadly I don't see him able to survive longterm.

    Bob became something greater than himself by being the group's sacrifice. He ended up saving them and sharing a special time with Sasha.

    Tara has learned that she can find forgiveness and she will become part of the group. She's growing up a little I'd say.

    Carl is a boy becoming a man. He still needs Rick though and Rick is finally able to really be there for him.

    Abraham will have to find another meaning now that his original quest is over.

    Eugene may find that he actually has something to offer the group.

    Beth learned she could be strong in her own way.

    Rosita I'm not sure about yet.

    Glenn and Maggie will have a story I hope but at this time I'm not sure where it will go.

  3. Back To Top    #13
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    Just Another Dead Girl ScifiSpirit's Avatar


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    Quote Originally Posted by Christ2010Grad View Post
    I wonder people like @CandyP, @ScifiSpirit, @rosie, @HonkyTonkWoman, @twdfann1, @Lish and others have seen this theme of "what we become" manifested?

    Thanks for the shout out here! :) So here are some of my thoughts:

    I've often stated that I don't view TWD as a survival show. The mere fact that characters do die means, to me, that it's not about survival. So, the question isn't "Who will survive?" It is "How will we change?" I know I've said that in a few threads in the Gen Discussion Forum. And season 5 is definitely playing into that approach on the show. By allowing the audience to get to know the characters on a more personal level, we can see what cloth some of these people are cut from. And we can see how they've evolved and changed because of the ZA.

    Another way to look at this is this: Everyone *still* has a reason to live. Nothing about that has changed, with or without the ZA. One may argue otherwise, but that is not how I see it. People are always going to fight to live, and always have a reason to live, that's just human nature. What's changed is that now suddenly people also have a reason to die. So, what you have to ask yourself is: "Which reason means more to you?"

    Season 5, with the deeper story telling, is allowing us to explore that more. We are seeing what people are capable of in order to choose the reasons for living. We are seeing what they choose to become and what they have to become. There is a sudden juxtaposition between several of our characters in which we can witness different ways of approaching problems. And I think those various dynamics are key into understanding "what someone will become" because in order to answer that, we first must consider "what did they used to be?". Not everyone was good and perfect. Are people becoming better or worse? They are all adapting in their own way, but how are they dealing with everyone else's changes? If someone becomes more extreme, are they allowing themselves to not become as extreme so as to let someone else deal with the brunt of the world? Or are they stepping up because other people are stepping up?

    *Rick, for example, is very willing to become whatever he has to in order to survive and protect the ones he loves - his family.
    *Glenn is willing to do the same, but he wont cross the same lines. Rick is focusing more on protecting peoples bodies while Glenn is still trying to protect their humanities.
    *Abe isn't interested in protecting anyone except the few he places value on - Eugene and Rosita. He will endanger lives because he believes there is a bigger cause at stake.
    *Father Gabriel has gone from being a leader to a man of fear and shame.
    *Carl has let go of his childhood and is willing to trust in his father completely.
    *Michonne, who already has done what she's needed to, is trying to regain some of what she's lost and not be so cold anymore.
    *Daryl is becoming more focused and less reckless. He is not regressing as he once was. He is recognizing his strengths and putting them to use.
    *Eugene has always used his strengths to his advantage, which is that he is indeed smarter than others and can easily trick them, but is now realizing he can't be that way anymore. He's becoming less of a coward in that respect.
    *Carol is becoming more resilient and hardened. She was weak before the ZA and refuses to be that way anymore.
    *Maggie has become more focused. She is prioritizing what she needs to in order for her to cope with everything and with all the loss.
    *Tyrese is not willing to change as Rick and Carol and some of the others have. He can accept the world for what it is, but still believes people have a choice. He uses violence only as a last resort.
    *Beth has become stronger and more fearless. She has always been sheltered but is not allowing that to cripple her in any way. She is holding on to her humanity but will stand up to and fight against anyone she has to.
    *Tara is becoming someone who will put herself in harm's way if she believes it's the right thing to do. Even in a world with no law, she will do the right thing.

    I believe, regarding season 5, a lot of the questions I proposed still remain to be answered, but will be by the season's end. We are still fleshing out these characters. They each contribute to the story in their own way. But, so far, we have seen some characters, such as Rick, become more willing to do whatever it takes and other characters such as Glenn, not so willing to cross that line. We have seen Abe willing to risk other lives for his own reasons, and we have seen Beth willing to risk her own life for someone else. We have seen Tyrese not so willing to let this world turn him into someone so aggressive and we have seen Carol go to extremes to eliminate anyone that could endanger lives.

    So there are a great many juxtapositions and dynamics happening in the show right now. The deeper exploration of these characters has definitely improved the type of story they are telling and allows an audience to connect with these people on a more personal level. With that in mind, by the season's end (and this is what I believe the point is), the question no longer will be "What do we become?" But will change to "What would YOU become?". And that's what makes this show more thrilling and enthralling.

  4. Back To Top    #14
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    For some of these guys, we haven't seen this theme of "What we Become?" manifested clearly yet. I'm sure it will all become clearer in the second half of the Season.

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    Crotch Grabber spectre's Avatar

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    @Christ2010Grad especially when they get to ASZ because those folks had it made and our group of survivors had it pretty rough. I think that's what is genius about the story and how they show that juxtaposition of what people become vs people that stayed the same.

  6. Back To Top    #16
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    I think some of the events from the GN (the slaughter of the Hunters, Abraham's backstory and Gabriel's backstory) were added in because they were relevant to the theme of "What we become."

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    Rock Your Own World! Element Girl's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christ2010Grad View Post
    I think some of the events from the GN (the slaughter of the Hunters, Abraham's backstory and Gabriel's backstory) were added in because they were relevant to the theme of "What we become."

    That makes sense. I think it is important that "what we become" theme is there are a lot of shades of gray in people and circumstances. Something else that always comes to mind is does one action define someone? All the characters have started to have their turn at the dark side which I find really interesting.

  8. Back To Top    #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Element Girl View Post
    That makes sense. I think it is important that "what we become" theme is there are a lot of shades of gray in people and circumstances. Something else that always comes to mind is does one action define someone? All the characters have started to have their turn at the dark side which I find really interesting.
    What do you mean all of them have started there turn to the dark side? Aside from Rick.

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    Well, I think that we saw several characters act much more savage with responding to Gareth's group in the church. I don't think they would have done that before, but they are all pushed to do things to survive. Rick and Carol are probably the best examples.

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    Love Interest darknessfalls's Avatar
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    I still really think they're suggesting that you can't be who you were pre-ZA any longer. The lines have greyed. You have to be able to adapt or you won't make it. But at the same time, you can't lose yourself or your sense of humanity amidst the bad either. You need to hold onto something that grounds you to keep you human.

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