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    Quote Originally Posted by Beatrice View Post
    Howard wears a wedding ring. I know that doesn't necessarily mean a lot, but I don't think the writers will divorce him and hook him up with Kim.
    I wasn't suggesting that Kim and Howard hook up. Just that Kim may go back to HHM because of her history there and that would destroy Jimmy. The place that never wanted him (until it was too late and was offered as charity), working for the guy he hates more than anyone, in the cumpany that his brother built. He would see that as the ultimate fuck you even if Kim is just doing it for herself because it just makes sense. I have a feeling she's going to be fired from her current gig so that makes her available and Howard probably wants someone new there with Chuck gone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay View Post
    I wasn't suggesting that Kim and Howard hook up. Just that Kim may go back to HHM because of her history there and that would destroy Jimmy. The place that never wanted him (until it was too late and was offered as charity), working for the guy he hates more than anyone, in the cumpany that his brother built. He would see that as the ultimate fuck you even if Kim is just doing it for herself because it just makes sense. I have a feeling she's going to be fired from her current gig so that makes her available and Howard probably wants someone new there with Chuck gone.
    Oh, I know you weren't suggesting that. I was just musing aloud about Howard's continued presence. I actually like Howard, and he makes a great comic target for Jimmy.

    I don't know if Kim's returning to HHM would destroy Jimmy, but I just don't think she would go there. Howard treated her like shit, even after she brought in Mesa Verde.

    Maybe Howard's still around because Howard's carrying some guilt associated with Chuck and Jimmy. I could see Howard helping Gene and/or Kim in the finale for that reason alone. Gene was resolute when he declined to use the vacuum services again. Saul was always pretty level headed in BB, so I don't think Gene would stay back after being discovered without a plan. I'm dying to know what it is, but this show is so great that I can take it by the episode and love it without wanting to rush all the reveals I think will await us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beatrice View Post
    Howard treated her like shit, even after she brought in Mesa Verde.
    Obviously Howard would have to make things right between them but the 2 of them do go way back. I mean, Howard paid for her law school. Kim was on the path to being partner at HHM if I remember correctly. It's just all the stuff between Jimmy and Chuck fukt it all up and Kim picked Jimmy's side and Howard picked Chuck's. But there is no doubt in my mind that Howard cares about Kim. Not romantically or anything like that but when he got mad at her for standing up for Jimmy in Season 1 you can tell he instantly regretted what he said. And that's why he told her the truth about Chuck going behind Jimmy's back. And I think it's obvious that a lot of the stuff that was happening with Kim at HHM had to do with Chuck and all the blame was falling on Howard. Not that he's innocent or anything but Chuck is gone now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay View Post
    Obviously Howard would have to make things right between them but the 2 of them do go way back. I mean, Howard paid for her law school. Kim was on the path to being partner at HHM if I remember correctly. It's just all the stuff between Jimmy and Chuck fukt it all up and Kim picked Jimmy's side and Howard picked Chuck's. But there is no doubt in my mind that Howard cares about Kim. Not romantically or anything like that but when he got mad at her for standing up for Jimmy in Season 1 you can tell he instantly regretted what he said. And that's why he told her the truth about Chuck going behind Jimmy's back. And I think it's obvious that a lot of the stuff that was happening with Kim at HHM had to do with Chuck and all the blame was falling on Howard. Not that he's innocent or anything but Chuck is gone now.
    They do go way back, but I thought it was the firm that paid for Kim's law school. I know that Kim tried to give Howard the check to pay it back, but she had to give it to someone, and she was making a point with Howard. Kim's problem with Howard was that he removed her from her office and sent her to document review. I can't even remember what it was for initially. That's when Kim went on her mission to bring in a client, made all those phone calls, brought in Mesa Verde, and Howard humiliated her by telling Paige and Kevin that they had plenty of lawyers to handle MV's business and that Kim would do fine in document review. That infuriated me! I agree that he cares about her in some capacity, but we've seen his capacity for cruelty toward her, as well. It was definitely a mixed bag, as he also told her about having to front for Chuck in rejecting Jimmy's appeal to join the firm. Howard's definitely complex, as are they all - we just haven't gotten to see him in that glory for awhile.

    I wish I could remember what it was that got her sent to the basement for document review that inspired the whole Mesa Verde thing and Kim's humiliation which led to her quitting, setting up shop with Jimmy, and handling Mesa Verde on her own before taking it over to the firm where she is now.

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    My memory is a bit fuzzy for why Kim was sent to the basement. I think she either told Jimmy what Howard told her about Chuck not wanting Jimmy there or Jimmy found out himself and she confirmed it or Howard just thought she told Jimmy but Jimmy found out on his own. It's been a while.

    And I can't remember if she was there because Chuck was mad that his secret got out or if Howard did it because he felt like Kim betrayed him. It's probably a bit of both.

    But before this Jimmy shit happened everything was fine between Kim and Howard. It seems like Howard was trying to do for Kim what Chuck did for Howard before everything happened.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay View Post
    My memory is a bit fuzzy for why Kim was sent to the basement. I think she either told Jimmy what Howard told her about Chuck not wanting Jimmy there or Jimmy found out himself and she confirmed it or Howard just thought she told Jimmy but Jimmy found out on his own. It's been a while.

    And I can't remember if she was there because Chuck was mad that his secret got out or if Howard did it because he felt like Kim betrayed him. It's probably a bit of both.

    But before this Jimmy shit happened everything was fine between Kim and Howard. It seems like Howard was trying to do for Kim what Chuck did for Howard before everything happened.
    Alrightie! I went to the source, Howard Hamlin's Wikipedia. She was initially sent to the basement because she failed to warn Howard and Chuck about that commercial Jimmy made for the Sandpiper class action lawsuit.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Hamlin


    Season 2
    See also: Better Call Saul (season 2)
    HHM brings in another law firm, Davis & Main, to help with the Sandpiper case. D&M hires Jimmy as an associate, and he continues to work on the Sandpiper case. He creates a TV advertisement in an effort to obtain new Sandpiper residents as plaintiffs in the lawsuit, which he previews for Kim, but has broadcast without obtaining permission from either D&M or HHM. After he is reprimanded at D&M, Jimmy leaves Kim an urgent voicemail requesting that she call him before speaking to Howard about the commercial. Kim is already being grilled by Howard and Chuck over her failure to warn them. Not wanting to get Jimmy in more trouble, she explains that she did not think it was necessary to inform them in advance. A furious Howard reprimands her and relegates her to entry-level work in HHM's document review room. Jimmy proposes that she sue HHM, but Kim rejects the idea, pointing out that a lawsuit would likely prevent her from being hired at any other firm. Instead, Kim works her law school, professional, and personal contacts in an effort to land a new client for the firm, hoping that bringing in new business will cause Howard to move her out of document review. She succeeds at winning over Mesa Verde Bank, and Howard is happy to have the business, but denies Kim credit. Jimmy later tries to persuade Kim to join him in creating a new firm. Instead, she agrees to work with him in shared office space while they maintain separate practices, but provide support to each other as needed.

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    That makes sense. And in that case it does seem like it was Chuck trying to get back at Jimmy and making up some dumb reason to do it. He couldn't get to Jimmy because he was at Davis & Main. And Howard's biggest flaw was blindly following Chuck.

    We still don't know all the facts on the history of HHM but the way I've always assumed it to be is when they first opened they were Hamlin & McGill. Howard's father and Chuck. Then they brought on a young Howard years later and something happened where Howard's father passed away and Chuck basically ran the show, he made the place what it is today, and was like a father figure to Howard. Which explains why Chuck is almost worshiped when he walks in to that place and why they've had so much patience with him. Eventually Howard worked his way up and they added the second H to HHM and kept the first H as a tribute to his father. So I think Howard not only idolized Chuck but also felt like he owed him something which explains why he blindly did everything Chuck wanted. And I think it also explains why Howard had the relationship with Kim that he did. He wanted to do for Kim what Chuck (and his father) did for him. And then Chuck lost it and nobody wanted to accept it. Especially after Howard already lost one father figure. Not that Jimmy is innocent but Chuck is the reason it got brought in to HHM instead of just keeping it within the McGill household.

    I think they've made it pretty clear that a lot of the time, even when Howard was saying things, it was Chuck that was pulling the strings and Howard was putting on an act. Or he would do things that he thought Chuck would want him to do. Which doesn't excuse anything. Some of those responses were severe. But I just think that Howard has always cared about Kim and even to this day wishes she could still be there and I think if Jimmy keeps going down this path and Kim and Jimmy keep drifting apart that Howard may apologize and make her an offer and she may accept. Because I think Kim definitely has a dark side and has been enjoying it but I don't think she's on board with the cartel stuff because that's way worse in her mind and could end in death. I'm actually really interested in Kim's reaction on the next episode when Jimmy returns. Because I think we're gonna get a big fight within the next 2 episodes. I didn't think it would happen this early but after that episode I don't even know if their relationship will survive this season. Or at the very least someone is going to betray someone and maybe the other won't know yet but the audience will. Like maybe Jimmy lies even though they said to no longer lie.

    And just a little side thing, when is the Sandpiper thing going to end? They only have 15 episodes left. It's gotta return at some point. Maybe Kim gets fired when they lose that case. Because remember her firm also represents Sandpiper. And he already suspects that she's working with Jimmy and Jimmy IS the face of the other side. Maybe that's why Howard is still on the show. Howard and Jimmy are going to have to work together (even if they don't want to) against Kim & Rich. Kim tries her hardest but loses. Jimmy goes full chimp with a machine gun on them and Howard just watches in horror even though it's good for HHM to win this. Rich then fires her accusing her of helping Jimmy. Jimmy takes that money and opens his office from Breaking Bad with Francesca, Huell and hopefully Kuby if they can get Bill Burr in the next season. And Howard offers Kim a position at HHM after he finds out about her being fired.

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    EDITED TO COMPLETE THE POST. IT POSTED ITSELF WHEN I WAS HALFWAY THROUGH WRITING IT.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay View Post
    We still don't know all the facts on the history of HHM but the way I've always assumed it to be is when they first opened they were Hamlin & McGill. Howard's father and Chuck. Then they brought on a young Howard years later and something happened where Howard's father passed away and Chuck basically ran the show, he made the place what it is today, and was like a father figure to Howard.
    How Chuck ended up with Howard's father in a little two man firm in ABQ is, to me, a major storytelling flaw in which Gilligan, et al., were out of their element. Chuck graduated high school as valedictorian at age 14 and graduated magna cum laude from Georgetown U law school. From there he clerked at the Delaware Court of Chancery and the US Court of Appeals for the Tenth Circuit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_McGill Young lawyers of this background are recruited by the largest and most prestigious law firms in the world and hire in at incredibly high salaries. They don't hang out a solo shingle or join some dude at a tiny firm in Albuquerque. I remember hearing this mentioned on the show and almost fell out of my chair, because it absolutely does not fit. Chuck was full of himself and on some subliminal level trying to obtain the love and attention from his parents that undeserving (in Chuck's mind) Jimmy seemed to monopolize. Being a very young Big Shot making more money in a year than his father made in his entire lifetime would get their attention. I don't ask myself why he took the route the show gave him - I think it was an error and not worth exploring, especially with Chuck being dead.

    Which explains why Chuck is almost worshiped when he walks in to that place and why they've had so much patience with him.
    I think the sole reason Chuck is almost worshipped is because of how much money he made for the firm due to his ingenious legal mind. He won impossible cases through impeccable research and overwhelming argument which attracted even more clients and more $$.

    I think they've made it pretty clear that a lot of the time, even when Howard was saying things, it was Chuck that was pulling the strings and Howard was putting on an act. Or he would do things that he thought Chuck would want him to do. Which doesn't excuse anything. Some of those responses were severe.
    I completely agree with this! We know for a fact that Chuck ordered Howard to reject Jimmy's application for employment with the firm, all the while acting toward Jimmy with sympathy and as if the rejection was Howard's. We know a lot of this was because of Slippin' Jimmy and the University of Samoa law school for which Chuck had no respect. In real life it wouldn't get much respect, either. But Chuck had Howard do the dirty work. Why? Because Chuck relished all that adoration he received at the firm and knew people would think less of him for rejecting his own brother.


    But I just think that Howard has always cared about Kim and even to this day wishes she could still be there and I think if Jimmy keeps going down this path and Kim and Jimmy keep drifting apart that Howard may apologize and make her an offer and she may accept.
    I think Howard might consider Kim a protege, although keep in mind that the firm loaned her the law school money. Yes, Howard rejected the payback, but I think that was from guilt. He has a lot to feel guilty about. I just think Howard's too superficial to really CARE about anybody. I do think he respects her abilities and intelligence, and I think he'd like to have Mesa Verde back.

    Because I think Kim definitely has a dark side and has been enjoying it but I don't think she's on board with the cartel stuff because that's way worse in her mind and could end in death. I'm actually really interested in Kim's reaction on the next episode when Jimmy returns. Because I think we're gonna get a big fight within the next 2 episodes. I didn't think it would happen this early but after that episode I don't even know if their relationship will survive this season. Or at the very least someone is going to betray someone and maybe the other won't know yet but the audience will. Like maybe Jimmy lies even though they said to no longer lie.
    I pretty much agree with this. I think she says she's not on board with the cartel stuff, but she has to know she painted a target on her back when she visited Lalo. Either that was an incredible lapse in judgment or she wants in the game and knows Jimmy would never have it, so she invites herself in. I do think she's going to have to be rescued, and I think she will be rescued. This is where Jimmy and Howard may have to put their differences aside. Howard will have an opportunity to assuage his guilt by helping Jimmy and Kim.

    And just a little side thing, when is the Sandpiper thing going to end?
    Good question. Jimmy is due a big chunk of change from that, and it could be that he uses that to pay the disappearer or assigns it over to Howard who then fronts the money to have Kim disappeared.

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    To me these are the 10 most important questions left on the show:

    #1 Will Kuby show up?
    Kuby is the final piece of Saul Goodman's A-Team. I know he was supposed to appear this season instead of Steven Ogg's character but Bill Burr wasn't able to make it happen with his schedule. I hope there is still room for him next season.


    #2 Will we see Saul Goodman open his office?
    I think the final shot of the series in the present day timeline will be him either sitting in his office or filming the iconic ad. But will we actually see it being built? I'd like to see Francesca return at some point before the final shot.


    #3 Will we see the construction of the Meth Lab start back up?
    I think we will. I don't think they'll make a big deal out of it. I think as soon as Lalo is defeated we'll get a montage of it being built and that will be the end of Mike & Gus' present day story. Very similar to Walt & Jesse's montage right after killing Gus when they destroyed the Meth Lab. Only the exact opposite of destroying.


    #4 Where are they with the Sandpiper case?
    It has to return at some point. It's too big to ignore and I think they are finally getting set up for the final battle in the final season. This is why Rich is a bigger part of the show now. We will see it from both sides.


    #5 What is Kim's future at Schweikart and Cokely?
    I don't see one. I don't think Rich trusts her. Her relationship with Jimmy almost blew it with Mesa Verde and I don't see that relationship helping the Sandpiper case either considering that Jimmy is the face of it.


    #6 Why is Howard still on the show?
    He hasn't felt important to the show since Chuck died. It's funny seeing Jimmy fuck with him but there's gotta be a bigger reason for them to keep finding reasons to keep him around.


    #7 What happens to Kim & Jimmy's relationship?
    This may actually be the most important question of the show because their relationship is the heart of it. I don't know but I think it's a pretty good guess that it doesn't work out.


    #8 What does Nacho do that would make Lalo mad and how does Saul play in to it?
    The last question may be the most important of the show. But this question is the reason the series exists. This goes all the way back to Breaking Bad Season 2.


    #9 Will we find out what happened with Kaylee?
    I'm not sure that even the writers consider this to be important but to me a satisfying conclusion to Mike's story on this show is not him standing beside Gus looking over the Meth Lab that they just had built after defeating Lalo. But that's the only conclusion I see because he's dead in the other timelines unless his legacy is what is featured in the Gene timeline. This show has spent a lot more time on Mike and his family and why he does this than Breaking Bad did. I think you need some sort of pay off with at least Kaylee in the future timeline. Even if it's a "if you look away you'll miss it" type of situation. I don't think it makes Mike's story any less tragic. He still abandoned her, he still failed, she never got the money. But just seeing what became of Kaylee I think would be dope. Especially if she followed in the footsteps of her father and grandfather and became a cop. Only one that isn't dirty.


    #10 What are the fates of Lalo, Nacho, Kim and Gene?
    The 4 major characters that we don't know the fates of. 5 if you count Howard but I'm not expecting anything bad to happen to him. I think we can assume that Lalo dies based on some of the talks Gus has with Hector in Breaking Bad and the fact that he's never seen and the fact that we do know the Meth Lab gets built. But we don't know the other 3.

    They got a lot of work to do in 15 episodes. But I have faith.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay View Post
    To me these are the 10 most important questions left on the show:

    #1 Will Kuby show up?
    Kuby is the final piece of Saul Goodman's A-Team. I know he was supposed to appear this season instead of Steven Ogg's character but Bill Burr wasn't able to make it happen with his schedule. I hope there is still room for him next season.

    #2 Will we see Saul Goodman open his office?
    I think the final shot of the series in the present day timeline will be him either sitting in his office or filming the iconic ad. But will we actually see it being built? I'd like to see Francesca return at some point before the final shot.
    Agree on #1. Kuby's parts in BB were so good. I laughed out loud as he played the environmental auditor for Skylar and then held Ted Beneke hostage until his check to the IRS cleared the bank.

    As for #2, I don't care so much about the leasing and build out of his office, but I think we have to see Francesca return. Francesca was so sweet when she worked with Jimmy and Kim, and she loved Kim. It was pretty clear in BB that she couldn't stand Saul. Part of me understands that from a standpoint of the nature of his practice and the people she has to deal with on a daily basis, but I think there was something more personal to it. I'd like that revealed, as it wasn't in BB.


    #3 Will we see the construction of the Meth Lab start back up?
    I think we will. I don't think they'll make a big deal out of it. I think as soon as Lalo is defeated we'll get a montage of it being built and that will be the end of Mike & Gus' present day story. Very similar to Walt & Jesse's montage right after killing Gus when they destroyed the Meth Lab. Only the exact opposite of destroying.
    I don't think it's necessary to see it built, but mention of construction recommencing would be ok. I'm also ok with no mention of it again. Maybe because I was pretty sick of the construction storyline by the time it ended. I loved the Werner and Mike arc, but had some issues with the concept. Werner and the guys were instructed to drive to a mountain overlook, park, be blindfolded, and then ride blindfolded to the site. By the time it was over, the guys had been taken into town with no attempt to hide their location. When they were sent back home, they were given instructions about how to get themselves to the various airports to depart for Germany. Any semblance of secrecy disappeared, so why have it in the first place?


    #5 What is Kim's future at Schweikart and Cokely?
    I don't see one. I don't think Rich trusts her. Her relationship with Jimmy almost blew it with Mesa Verde and I don't see that relationship helping the Sandpiper case either considering that Jimmy is the face of it.
    No, I agree her days at S&K are numbered for the reasons you state. Rich is going to have to do an end run around Kim to keep Mesa Verde, though. I think he can do that by meeting with Kevin and Paige and showing them the hours Kim has billed to Mesa Verde as compared to the hours she has billed to her pro bono work. He can convince Kevin that way that S&K has obviated Kevin's need for Kim. Rich will get that lined up before he lowers the boom on Kim.

    I have also considered that Kevin could play a part in terms of Kim's situation with the cartel. He's a banker who has expanded his empire at lightning speed. Might he be providing some laundering services? I'd like him to not be as squeaky clean as he's been so far.


    #6 Why is Howard still on the show?
    He hasn't felt important to the show since Chuck died. It's funny seeing Jimmy fuck with him but there's gotta be a bigger reason for them to keep finding reasons to keep him around.
    Yeah, I've been asking that same question, too. Wouldn't it be interesting to find out that HHM represents Gus Fring, d/b/a Los Pollos Hermanos? He would be representing Gus's legitimate business side. All that franchising needs some good lawyering.


    #7 What happens to Kim & Jimmy's relationship?
    This may actually be the most important question of the show because their relationship is the heart of it. I don't know but I think it's a pretty good guess that it doesn't work out.
    The million dollar question has become even more so considering that while doing today's research I learned that a spinoff show for Kim is being considered. I don't know what I think about that. I was skeptical about BCS when the news first broke, but at least BCS was connected to the BB universe. I don't know what they'd connect Kim to other than the BCS universe minus most of the BB characters. Maybe that's why Howard is being kept around so that his storyline will move into her spinoff, if they do it.

    #8 What does Nacho do that would make Lalo mad and how does Saul play in to it?
    Perhaps Lalo finds out about Nacho's deal with Fring.


    The last question may be the most important of the show. But this question is the reason the series exists. This goes all the way back to Breaking Bad Season 2.


    #9 Will we find out what happened with Kaylee?

    I'm not sure that they even the writers consider this to be important but to me a satisfying conclusion to Mike's story on this show is not him standing beside Gus looking over the Meth Lab that they just had built after defeating Lalo. But that's the only conclusion I see because he's dead in the other timelines unless his legacy is what is featured in the Gene timeline. This show has spent a lot more time on Mike and his family and why he does this than Breaking Bad did. I think you need some sort of pay off with at least Kaylee in the future timeline. Even if it's a "if you look away you'll miss it" type of situation. I don't think it makes Mike's story any less tragic. He still abandoned her, he still failed, she never got the money. But just seeing what became of Kaylee I think would be dope. Especially if she followed in the footsteps of her father and grandfather and became a cop. Only one that isn't dirty.
    Like I said before, I don't care if I never see or hear of Kaylee again. I think her story was important to Mike's story, but to me, once Mike's story ended so did hers. BTW, Kaylee's dad was a good cop who Mike advised to participate in the skimming. The son refused, and his suspicious partners killed him for it. That's why Mike killed the partners.


    #10 What are the fates of Lalo, Nacho, Kim and Gene?
    The 4 major characters that we don't know the fates of. 5 if you count Howard but I'm not expecting anything bad to happen to him. I think we can assume that Lalo dies based on some of the talks Gus has with Hector in Breaking Bad and the fact that he's never seen and the fact that we do know the Meth Lab gets built. But we don't know the other 3.

    They got a lot of work to do in 15 episodes. But I have faith.
    I'll agree with that but will add Kevin to the mix. To me, he's a wild card that could disappear as soon as Kim leaves S&K or, if he's involved in money laundering, he could learn she's endangered herself and might protect her from the shadows somehow. Interesting that we never see Nacho in BB but know he was alive for some of it as Saul mentions Nacho and Lalo to Walt and Jesse when they kidnap him.

    So the final season will be 13 episodes? Awesome!

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