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    Governor תωɛɛȶ Ɗҽʂƚɾυƈƚιřɳ×'s Avatar

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    Daniel Debate Thread. LOVE AND HATE.

    I didn't see a thread for him and after tonight I think he needs one so I made it. :)

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    Hes a Character that is plain over the top stupid. He says its already too late when he sees the soldiers move in, hes capable of understanding that much, yet for some reason he thinks his wife is alive? and that he will be in time to save his wife?

    Since hes a scumbag to begin with and thinks the soldiers are also the same he should have realized that they were dead the moment his wife and Nick went with them. And yet they werent how amazingly convenient, they actually did treat his wife, and only ended her life when it was too late, meanwhile we have contrasting extremes, we have them collecting people who they find troublesome like Nick and those caged in, yet they have left people in the stadium to turn, hunted down both living and undead, terminating them indiscriminately. Way to much bullshit pretense going on in the compound while their trained dogs are going out terminating people, yet protecting them at the same time, confused much?

    What I hate the most, is that his daughter he has been put in a life threatening situation, chasing after someone he knows is dead. Terminus mode Carol knew they were alive at least, is survivor savvy and understands how things work in the post ZA world, Daniel might be from El Salvador, and knowledgeable in the ways of scumbags, but he was totally wrong with what he did bringing a horde down on them and the survivors, what if he did find his wife alive? what then? carry her ass out with her leg amputated, if he had some hope that she was alive and being treated, then what? take all the drugs there and force a medical person to go with them to treat her? hope against hope that Travis X was alive after unleashing that many Zs on their compound? and then what? escape a Z infested compound relying on a softy like Travis who has such an amazing memory to know where to go and which route to take in a place thats suppose to be a maze, while avoiding the shit storm around them? really? I guess adrenaline will make you competent and super reliable huh.

    Bleh bad writing, terrible writing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nippa View Post
    Hes a Character that is plain over the top stupid. He says its already too late when he sees the soldiers move in, hes capable of understanding that much, yet for some reason he thinks his wife is alive? and that he will be in time to save his wife?

    Since hes a scumbag to begin with and thinks the soldiers are also the same he should have realized that they were dead the moment his wife and Nick went with them. And yet they werent how amazingly convenient, they actually did treat his wife, and only ended her life when it was too late, meanwhile we have contrasting extremes, we have them collecting people who they find troublesome like Nick and those caged in, yet they have left people in the stadium to turn, hunted down both living and undead, terminating them indiscriminately. Way to much bullshit pretense going on in the compound while their trained dogs are going out terminating people, yet protecting them at the same time, confused much?

    What I hate the most, is that his daughter he has been put in a life threatening situation, chasing after someone he knows is dead. Terminus mode Carol knew they were alive at least, is survivor savvy and understands how things work in the post ZA world, Daniel might be from El Salvador, and knowledgeable in the ways of scumbags, but he was totally wrong with what he did bringing a horde down on them and the survivors, what if he did find his wife alive? what then? carry her ass out with her leg amputated, if he had some hope that she was alive and being treated, then what? take all the drugs there and force a medical person to go with them to treat her? hope against hope that Travis X was alive after unleashing that many Zs on their compound? and then what? escape a Z infested compound relying on a softy like Travis who has such an amazing memory to know where to go and which route to take in a place thats suppose to be a maze, while avoiding the shit storm around them? really? I guess adrenaline will make you competent and super reliable huh.

    Bleh bad writing, terrible writing.
    So Daniel is being blamed for a lot in this post.


    1. I don't know how you can blame a man for wanting to be with his wife to make sure that he can take care of her when she's in a vulnerable state, but I guess you can? We the audience are not aware of how much Daniel knows about the medical field, so we don't know if he's aware that her chances of surviving are slim, but there was a chance. It would make sense that he would want to be there to take care of his wife when he knows that she's not in the best position to do so. I don't get faulting anyone for wanting to do that for their loved ones. Also they didn't end Griselda's life, she died after not recovering from surgery, so again there was a chance that she would live and I'm sure that's what Daniel was clinging to.


    2. I don't know why the military's actions are relevant to Daniel, but okay. We weren't shown a military that went out killing human beings indiscriminately. We saw them stop to kill one zombie and also stop to help people in a library (who they then left) but that was it. As far as the story that Ofelia's soldier BF told Daniel, he said that people started turning (faster than he had ever seen), and then people started trampling over one another trying to get out of the stadium, and because the soldiers couldn't tell the infected from everyone else they chained the doors and locked them in. I don't think anyone can blame someone for thinking of themselves first, and that's the motivation behind locking the people in the stadium, but it is a little morally ambiguous.


    3. Daniel letting all of the Z's out of the stadium wasn't the best plan, but I'm not sure what alternatives he had. He definitely couldn't have strolled up to the gates and talked the military into letting him in, so the only other option would have been to ram the gate and that would have put everyone at risk. Although it wasn't the best plan, him using the zombies as a distraction was Daniel using what he had readily available to accomplish his mission. Also, I'm not sure if the makeshift hospital had any wheelchairs that would allow them to easily get Griselda out of the facility, if they didn't they absolutely had gurneys so getting her out would
    not have been the biggest problem.


    I don't know how you can call Daniel a scumbag with the little piece of his background that we were able to get. It's easy to judge him for taking a job that would have him torturing and possibly killing other people with out all of the info. Sometimes the only choice is life and death, and calling him a scumbag for choosing life seems a tad ridiculous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CrownRoyale View Post
    So Daniel is being blamed for a lot in this post.


    1. I don't know how you can blame a man for wanting to be with his wife to make sure that he can take care of her when she's in a vulnerable state, but I guess you can? We the audience are not aware of how much Daniel knows about the medical field, so we don't know if he's aware that her chances of surviving are slim, but there was a chance. It would make sense that he would want to be there to take care of his wife when he knows that she's not in the best position to do so. I don't get faulting anyone for wanting to do that for their loved ones. Also they didn't end Griselda's life, she died after not recovering from surgery, so again there was a chance that she would live and I'm sure that's what Daniel was clinging to.
    What he did was burn down the house she was in to get her out safely? yeah great logic. Lets put my daughter in harms way while Im at it, great caring family man.


    2. I don't know why the military's actions are relevant to Daniel, but okay. We weren't shown a military that went out killing human beings indiscriminately. We saw them stop to kill one zombie and also stop to help people in a library (who they then left) but that was it. As far as the story that Ofelia's soldier BF told Daniel, he said that people started turning (faster than he had ever seen), and then people started trampling over one another trying to get out of the stadium, and because the soldiers couldn't tell the infected from everyone else they chained the doors and locked them in. I don't think anyone can blame someone for thinking of themselves first, and that's the motivation behind locking the people in the stadium, but it is a little morally ambiguous.
    His mistrust of the soldiers and the powers that be which led him on his thoughtless over the top reactions, he based it all on his past scumbag experiences, seeing a pattern forming that was leading to his wifes death, when Maddy went out to see where those people were who were flashing signals to Travis son, she saw both living and undead casualties, later when Travis watched for those same people at night he saw gun flashes that could mean a few things, however the soldiers Lt was adamant that there were no other survivors out there, and that they had been routinely purging the infected, which Maddy saw evidence of. Daniels reaction to this information was to exploit his daughters relationship, which in itself was targeted to exploit the soldier who fell into her seduction snare. I dont blame her for using her feminine wiles, it was feasible, it was not physically harming anyone, meanwhile Daniel torturing the soldier for information, and showing his true scumbag colors.

    This is why his actions are over the top stupid.

    1. He kidnaps a soldier, had they decided to do a house by house search for him they would have started with Ofelia, they would have suspected either desertion or some funny business with the growing discord in there little safe zone, or a breach in their perimeter. That Lt is pretty quick on the mark to get rid of troublesome folk. Had they found him what do you think the outcome would have been?
    2. He Tortures the soldier, that soldier couldve told him as much shit as he wanted, given him info that would get him caught, being a scumbag in El Salvador would have told him this much. People only know what they know, and will say anything to stop the pain.
    3. He decides to torture the soldier in sound proof basement that cant be heard by the patrolling soldiers? really? a kid notices lights flashing during the day, they notice a man being reclusive and showing signs of erratic behaviour, are watching the residents for those who could cause issues or have illnesses that may compromise the safe zone, but they cant hear one of their own being tortured or notice hes missing? yeah thats convenient.
    4. He gets more info on what they did in the stadium, which is totally irrelevant other than the plot filler for helping get his wife out another really shitty stupid plan that shouldve failed, but by the grace of Television land we have a win! by using fail lazy ass writing. I have to add that his daughter plus himself almost got chomped a few times by those friendly distractions, sure its a totally foolproof well thought out plan.


    3. Daniel letting all of the Z's out of the stadium wasn't the best plan, but I'm not sure what alternatives he had. He definitely couldn't have strolled up to the gates and talked the military into letting him in, so the only other option would have been to ram the gate and that would have put everyone at risk. Although it wasn't the best plan, him using the zombies as a distraction was Daniel using what he had readily available to accomplish his mission. Also, I'm not sure if the makeshift hospital had any wheelchairs that would allow them to easily get Griselda out of the facility, if they didn't they absolutely had gurneys so getting her out would
    not have been the biggest problem.
    When we see TWD with a flash back from Shane, hes at the hospital when shit goes down, guards are shooting randomly, attacking anything that moves and succumbing to the chaos and confusion, he has his best friend in a coma to think of plus his own safety, and he couldnt get him out, the best he could do was simply barricade his door and hope its enough before running off to safety. Yet in this circumstance, we have rampant chaos many armed soldiers fighting, and being overwhelmed quickly, with Zs already reaching areas that they were going through while searching for Nick and Lizzie, they had confrontations which ended in Lizzie being bitten, least of their concerns was finding Daniels wife and getting her out alive, because they were having a tough time keeping themselves alive, the rest was a series of writen in flukes to keep them alive while stumbling about an area that was a maze apparently.

    Inside the compound we have Strand, who has managed to do some wheeling and dealing, using his brain to gain connections inside the compound, he was able to get information without torturing anyone, managed to get out of his cage and if not for the stray Zs cutting off his exit, he wouldve been home free, some might argue that he gained this opportunity due to the chaos Daniel started, but others myself included see that his opportunities were cut short because of it, due to his sharp mind he was still able to capitalize off this new situation taking over in guiding the rest of them to "temporary safety"

    Convenient writing allowed them to escape, all there troubles came as a result of Zs attacking them not soldiers.

    As I said before Setting the building shes in on fire is not the safest rescue option available, they had Lizzie on the inside, who he should realize was caring and capable, he could have tried to bribe soldiers, found a different distraction for the guards to focus on, used the information he had gained by using that soldier to get into the compound, anything that was more plausible than the Z stampede he started.


    I don't know how you can call Daniel a scumbag with the little piece of his background that we were able to get. It's easy to judge him for taking a job that would have him torturing and possibly killing other people with out all of the info. Sometimes the only choice is life and death, and calling him a scumbag for choosing life seems a tad ridiculous.
    People who torture are scumbags, and sure if its a matter of survival then so be it, but your still a scumbag for doing it, lets call it what it is lol, Im ok with people being scumbags, even if your Joseph Mengele, if you are useful to me so be it in a survival situation, but am I gonna call him sweetie? honeypie? no... Im gonna call him a scumbag, even if hes useful.

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    So what happens now with Daniel and the family? He being the one with the herd plan indirectly caused Liza's death.

    I like him, he's a no half measures type of guy, he was never a saint to begin with, he made a real risky move that saved and took lives.
    I'd say he's the Carol of FTWD! lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stella Gibson View Post
    So what happens now with Daniel and the family? He being the one with the herd plan indirectly caused Liza's death.

    I like him, he's a no half measures type of guy, he was never a saint to begin with, he made a real risky move that saved and took lives.
    I'd say he's the Carol of FTWD! lol.
    I dont mind his attitude nor his willingness to do what is necessary to survive, however choosing the smart and less risky option is better than the stupid dangerous one, I dont condemn his desire and need to take risks for his family, what I condemn is his stupid choices, and the shitty writing that made it possible.

    Can you visualize him at the stadium, casually opening up the doors, then luring them to the compound? without using loud noises that the soldiers watching the compound wouldnt be able to hear? while walking around at night in dark streets with that amount of Zs on your ass? These Zs are fresh as well, theyre not months old, so who knows how much faster they are, or stronger? Daniel has very little understanding of these creatures. I dislike stupid people like this, they think they understand a situation and act accordingly, even though its poorly thought out and executed (as in the lazy ass writing) what he did was like setting fire to a building then running in doused in petrol and expecting things to just work itself out.

    They couldve used disguises to get in, soldiers at there safe zone had left, did they leave anything they could use behind? uniforms? etc to get a foot into the compound, found an area along the fence line that they could slip in through? bribed guards? created a different distraction? used their brains for a sensible more realistic plan than going Carol terminus mode? Instead we see a lot of "convenient" scenarios that increase chances of survival, when there shouldnt be any. Imho I believe the writers thought that the slow pacing of the show might be detrimental, and decided it needed spicing up to TWD style. They thought they needed a hook to lure in viewers to satisfy the dissatisfied only to alienate them instead, it was insulting how they threw in this garbage expecting a good response, they really dont care about insulting our intellect, or our ability to discern shit from gold.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CrownRoyale View Post
    So Daniel is being blamed for a lot in this post.


    1. I don't know how you can blame a man for wanting to be with his wife to make sure that he can take care of her when she's in a vulnerable state, but I guess you can? We the audience are not aware of how much Daniel knows about the medical field, so we don't know if he's aware that her chances of surviving are slim, but there was a chance. It would make sense that he would want to be there to take care of his wife when he knows that she's not in the best position to do so. I don't get faulting anyone for wanting to do that for their loved ones. Also they didn't end Griselda's life, she died after not recovering from surgery, so again there was a chance that she would live and I'm sure that's what Daniel was clinging to.


    2. I don't know why the military's actions are relevant to Daniel, but okay. We weren't shown a military that went out killing human beings indiscriminately. We saw them stop to kill one zombie and also stop to help people in a library (who they then left) but that was it. As far as the story that Ofelia's soldier BF told Daniel, he said that people started turning (faster than he had ever seen), and then people started trampling over one another trying to get out of the stadium, and because the soldiers couldn't tell the infected from everyone else they chained the doors and locked them in. I don't think anyone can blame someone for thinking of themselves first, and that's the motivation behind locking the people in the stadium, but it is a little morally ambiguous.


    3. Daniel letting all of the Z's out of the stadium wasn't the best plan, but I'm not sure what alternatives he had. He definitely couldn't have strolled up to the gates and talked the military into letting him in, so the only other option would have been to ram the gate and that would have put everyone at risk. Although it wasn't the best plan, him using the zombies as a distraction was Daniel using what he had readily available to accomplish his mission. Also, I'm not sure if the makeshift hospital had any wheelchairs that would allow them to easily get Griselda out of the facility, if they didn't they absolutely had gurneys so getting her out would
    not have been the biggest problem.


    I don't know how you can call Daniel a scumbag with the little piece of his background that we were able to get. It's easy to judge him for taking a job that would have him torturing and possibly killing other people with out all of the info. Sometimes the only choice is life and death, and calling him a scumbag for choosing life seems a tad ridiculous.
    Yeah, out of all characters on this show he's the one I have least problems with, so far nothing major. I think he's one of the few characters they did a good job with.

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    Daniel and Strand are the two best characters in this sorry ass show. Nick pulls in at a distant third but the actor is giving it his all.

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