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  1. Back To Top    #351
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    Governor meesha1971's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kushmeja View Post
    I have to agree with this. The character development and foreshadowing for Glenn have been ongoing over the last few seasons, whereas Abe didn't get much love until recently.

    Aside from that, why do so many people believe that in order for a character to be killed, that they should be built up in the previous/current episodes? Doesn't that make things very predictable and stale, since every time they build up a character and give them extra attention, we would know that they're not long for this world.
    It's not really an issue of build up or character development. Both Glenn and Abraham are well rounded, well developed characters - we know who they are and enough about where they came from to see how it applies to who they are now. But there is a distinctive difference when one of those characters is almost completely absent from the episode they supposedly die in - as was the case with Glenn. And not even just that episode - Glenn didn't have much of a presence in season 6 at all because of dumpstergate and the focus on Carol, Rick, and Daryl in the last few episodes. They set things up for Glenn to have some very interesting story arcs - i.e. how he will deal with his first human kills and the realization that those kills did not protect or keep his family safe as he believed, but rather contributed to putting everyone in more danger and one of them being brutally murdered instead. Not to mention how he would handle Maggie being sick and the baby possibly being at risk - Glenn has a tendency to be overprotective so that in and of itself could be an interesting story for Glenn and Maggie. As well as the baby itself because becoming parents would change both Glenn and Maggie's perspectives. All of that was left dangling with Glenn being used as a plot device for Daryl in 6x15 and almost completely absent from the finale with only a brief appearance at the end of the episode. That's just not good storytelling.

    Contrast that with Abraham who got a lot of focus in season 6. Not all of it was positive - the way he was hitting on Sasha while telling Rosita how perfect she was for him and then dumping her for Sasha made him look like an asshole. But he still gets a complete story because, however badly he handled it, that was part of him resolving a lot of his personal issues and coming around to believing that he could build a future in this world. He resolves the conflict with Eugene as well - reaching the point where he could acknowledge that Eugene has changed and learned how to be a survivor in his own right. Accepting that Eugene no longer needs him for protection. They could certainly start new story arcs for Abraham if he survived this, but there wasn't really anything left danging and unresolved. Nothing that he could resolve himself anyway. He had a solid presence throughout and we even got to see his softer side with how gentle and supportive he was with Maggie - even holding on to her so she could lean against him when they were forced to their knees in the clearing. It wasn't that they built Abraham up more or made him more prominent than anyone else - there was a good balance there. But they brought his story to a satisfying resolution. The finale was a long goodbye to Abraham and very good storytelling.

  2. Back To Top    #352
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    Zombie Hoarder Frumpus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kushmeja View Post
    Aside from that, why do so many people believe that in order for a character to be killed, that they should be built up in the previous/current episodes? Doesn't that make things very predictable and stale, since every time they build up a character and give them extra attention, we would know that they're not long for this world.
    We have the tv show writers to blame for that. They are very predictable when it comes to foreshadowing major character deaths that way. It's not like us viewers have any say in it.

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    Problem Child donte1221's Avatar
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    Theres just no point in killing glenn off and maggie not lose that baby in her current state. So it will either be eugene or abraham

  4. Back To Top    #354
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    Token Black Guy JoshLail's Avatar
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    I've seen a handful of articles trending on Facebook that say they think it is Maggie who is killed. I guess AMC will win. People will go in thinking it's Maggie when it ends up being Abraham and Glenn.

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    I guess our mysterioua guest was Right after all!.. And .Meesha you were oh so wrong.. Damn!

    Quote Originally Posted by meesha1971 View Post
    Not only is it possible for SY to have filmed scenes in advance, they have done that before. All of LJ's scenes in season 5 - from several different episodes and including the finale were filmed in advance at the studio because LJ was only available for filming for a couple of days due to being on another show at the time. They do use different directors throughout the season, but some directors also direct more than one episode. Like Greg Nicotero - he directed 4 episodes in season 6. Michael E. Satrazemis directed 3 episodes in season 6. For season 5, Nicotero directed 2 of the episodes that Morgan appeared in - No Sanctuary and Conquer. Earnest Dickerson directed Coda. Morgan wasn't even guaranteed to be a permanent character at that point because LJ couldn't commit to becoming a series regular at the time, but they were still willing to work around his schedule and go to the time and expense necessary to film all of his scenes together. SY is already a series regular and I see no reason to assume that they would not be willing to work around his schedule the same as they did for LJ - especially with him only being needed for 2 episodes in 7A. Maybe 3 if Hilltop will be in the MSF.

    There are no "absolute facts" until the episodes air. I understand that these sources are confident and believe they have been given correct information - and that both have good track records. But I also know that nobody is infallible and we have two very different versions of this theory from two sources that both have good track records. Both versions claim to be "absolute fact" and true from inside sources. But one says that Glenn is the Lucille victim and Abraham probably dies later on by another means. The other says Abraham and Glenn both die by Lucille - in that order - and somehow it's going to be Daryl's fault that Negan is a murderous psychopath. Regardless, both theories cannot be true so one of these inside sources is either lying or has been misinformed.

    So, while we can't rule out either scenario at this time, we also cannot rule out other scenarios. As you pointed out yourself, Glenn and/or Abraham could film scenes that are flashbacks, hallucinations, or dreams - as could several characters from the line up so sightings during filming - or lack thereof - aren't giving us any "absolute facts". The structure of 7A makes it possible for them to film some scenes in advance - especially for Glenn because he would stay at Hilltop with Maggie. SY filmed for the premiere so there's no issue there, but the only other episode Glenn would actually appear in would be 7x05 - and Glenn would not have many scenes in that episode because there will be focus on other characters, saviors showing up for collection, and the trailer indicates some kind of battle will take place as well. Sounds like there will be a lot going on with various people so that was a good episode to schedule during the time SY would not be available to film. And we also cannot rule out the possibility that some of these episodes were filmed out of order - which they have also done before. It's rare, but again, the structure of 7A allows a lot of flexibility because episodes showing the same general time frame could be aired in any order without disrupting the story. After the premiere, it really doesn't matter if we see the sanctuary episode or the Hilltop episode or the Kingdom episode next - not to mention that Gimple prefers non-linear storytelling so he could potentially mix some of the episodes up in any order.

    I will also refer you to this post from our administrator regarding inside sources for the Lucille victim.
    - - - Updated - - -

    Jennifer its time for you to claim your prize for showing Meesha up!


    Where is your apology meesha?


    Quote Originally Posted by meesha1971 View Post
    I'm not shooting the messenger. Just pointing out that you are wrong about the filming. Repeating incorrect assumptions does not make them fact. It's still an incorrect assumption. LJ filmed more than an after credit scene for Conquer actually - and all of that was filmed during the only 2 days he was available as well. I don't recall when those 2 days were - or if that was ever verified because I don't think anyone ever saw him - so I don't know which director would have been there at that time. Most likely Nicotero took care of that since he's always there regardless. Which would be true for SY as well. And LJ would have had to film a similar number of scenes for season 5 in those 2 days that SY would need to film for 7x05 if they filmed his scenes in advance. As I said, it is very possible that they did have SY film some scenes for 7x05 in advance to compensate for the time he needed to be in Korea. They can and have filmed scenes in advance to accommodate an actor's schedule in the past. Other shows have done things like that as well so assuming that would be out of the realm of possibility is a logical fallacy. We have been given no viable evidence or reason to assume that they would not give SY the same courtesy that they gave LJ for a similar amount of filming time.

    Also, there was viable evidence of the cliffhanger with the leaked audio and a leaked summary - around 2 weeks prior to the episode airing. The leaked Negan footage supported that as well. The 2 Lucille victim theory has no viable evidence whatsoever beyond people assuming that AMC would not be willing to film a few scenes with SY for 7x05 in advance and MC and SY not being present for filming for several weeks. That in and of itself is a baffling assumption because the majority of that time was filming for episodes that neither of them would be in so there's no reason to assume that they're dead based on that. What most people were hoping for in regards to the cliffhanger was that they had already filmed the full scene and the angry response over the cliffhanger spoiler would result in them re-editing the finale to show who died. Or that they had cut the screener short to prevent the ending from being spoiled. Both were viable possibilities to consider even if the odds were greatly against them.



    I brought them up because you are making the same claims as one of those sources - and both theories have been presented by people who are "ABSOLUTELY" sure that their theory is right. All are claiming that their information is verified and comes from reliable inside source - i.e. people who could lose their job if identified. But the two theories are still different and they can't both be correct. Someone is lying or has been woefully misinformed. You either have viable evidence or you don't - i.e. call sheets, a page or pages from the shooting script for camera angles, a page or pages from the actual script, pictures, video, etc... What you've given us is pure speculation based on supposition and assumption about filming sightings that may or may not be accurate - as well as a lot of assumptions about what TPTB would be willing or not willing to do in order to protect the spoiler or accommodate one of the actor's filming schedule.

    As theories go, it's not a terrible one - the lack of filming could mean that those 2 characters are dead so your theory could turn out to be correct come October. It would be terrible writing for the show, but I can see why some people came up with this theory. But that doesn't change the fact that it's just a theory right now - and a lot of people have come up with well thought out theories for all 11 characters in the Lucille line up so there are going to be people who can come back in October to claim victory about being right regardless of who the victim is. You've got a 2/11 chance of your theory being right.

  6. Back To Top    #356
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    Governor Dazed And Kwam-fused's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobZombee View Post
    I guess our mysterioua guest was Right after all!.. And .Meesha you were oh so wrong.. Damn! - - - Updated - - - Jennifer its time for you to claim your prize for showing Meesha up! Where is your apology meesha?
    lmaooooo

  7. Back To Top    #357
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    Governor meesha1971's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobZombee View Post
    I guess our mysterioua guest was Right after all!.. And .Meesha you were oh so wrong.. Damn!



    - - - Updated - - -

    Jennifer its time for you to claim your prize for showing Meesha up!


    Where is your apology meesha?


    You think I should apologize for pointing out that nothing could be confirmed or ruled out 3 months ago? Even the spoiler ninjas admitted that nothing could be confirmed or ruled out - even up to a few days ago. And a lot of us realized it would be terrible writing if they went this route - though that's not anything to celebrate being right about.

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