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    Game of Thrones - Part 4

    Winter is coming.

    This is a continuation thread. Part 3 is here.

    From the last page, @Jay, I like what you said here -
    it goes back to the thing that was said by Jon and Grey Worm (I think?) about your men fighting for you even if you wouldn't fight for them. Jon fights for his people.
    I absolutely agree with that. I don't think that means women shouldn't rule because they can be fighters too. One of my hopes for when the wars are all over is that Westeros will adopt Dorne's rules where women can inherit houses.

    Show Dorne is obviously a terrible example of that but book Dorne isn't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by day dreamer View Post
    Winter is coming.

    This is a continuation thread. Part 3 is here.

    From the last page, @Jay, I like what you said here -

    I absolutely agree with that. I don't think that means women shouldn't rule because they can be fighters too. One of my hopes for when the wars are all over is that Westeros will adopt Dorne's rules where women can inherit houses.

    Show Dorne is obviously a terrible example of that but book Dorne isn't.
    Of course. Anyone can rule but I think a lot of the sexism stems from history. In 2016 it's VERY different then it was in whatever year GOT is in. It's a world where men are the ones doing 95% of the fighting and the northern houses for example have been through a lot and have lost faith in House Stark and to get them back on your side you need to show them results. Give them a reason to believe again and Jon is doing that. How are they going to have faith in Sansa when all she does is sit on her horse and watch?

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    Sansa needs to find her own identity again. She's really been through hell (all the Starks have) and she obviously has trust issues being around the Lannister and Littlefinger for so long. She needs to sort that. And to sort that, Littlefinger needs to die. She needs to free herself from him in particular to move forward.

    I assume Bran makes it to Winterfell in S7. Someone has to tell Jon about R+L=J and since Howland Reed isn't in the show, I assume it will be him. Maybe Sansa will get over it a bit then. Jon has royal blood and Bran is the heir to Winterfell.

    But knowing D&D, that will just make her more jealous and she'll continue to plot with Littlefinger.

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    Quote Originally Posted by day dreamer View Post
    Sansa needs to find her own identity again. She's really been through hell (all the Starks have) and she obviously has trust issues being around the Lannister and Littlefinger for so long. She needs to sort that. And to sort that, Littlefinger needs to die. She needs to free herself from him in particular to move forward.

    I assume Bran makes it to Winterfell in S7. Someone has to tell Jon about R+L=J and since Howland Reed isn't in the show, I assume it will be him. Maybe Sansa will get over it a bit then. Jon has royal blood and Bran is the heir to Winterfell.

    But knowing D&D, that will just make her more jealous and she'll continue to plot with Littlefinger.
    Howland better show up at some point or what was the point to even point him out in the flashback. Why is Meera so important? This has to lead back to him at some point. Maybe he doesn't reveal the truth but it would be cool to see him at some point. Maybe if/when the North unites together to fight the white walkers Howland finally gets off his ass and helps them. House Reed still very much exists so it would be weird if some houses just stay hidden. Specially Howland. He doesn't seem like a bitch. I imagine he's older now but he was around Ned's age and Ned could still fight. Howland is probably 40-50.

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    @day dreamer wrote:

    I'd argue that Cat is better than Sansa. Catelyn had a legit reason for not liking Jon, but that aside, she was all about her family. Sansa right now seems to be about herself. I get she had a lot of shit happen to her, for her to act irrationally because of that trauma is normal, but for a viewer it sucks because I want her to be with her family again and be happy, and instead she's just back to being Littlefinger's puppet.
    Yes, Catelyn was all about her family, but Catelyn was a mother, and Sansa is not. Until Sansa becomes a mother (which I hope is no time soon), Sansa is incapable of the yearning of a mother to bring her family together. Catelyn had hopes her children were alive, while Sansa has no idea where her living siblings are and if they're even alive. Sansa lived through some horrors her mother did not and toughened and adapted accordingly. I don't see her actions as irrational but completely in line with who she has to be at this time. I'd like to see her happy with her family, too, but this is not the time. Littlefinger's a clever devil, but I think Sansa is, too, and that they'll work each other for what each wants from the other.

    I also agree with this:

    From the last page, @Jay, I like what you said here -
    it goes back to the thing that was said by Jon and Grey Worm (I think?) about your men fighting for you even if you wouldn't fight for them. Jon fights for his people.


    I absolutely agree with that. I don't think that means women shouldn't rule because they can be fighters too. One of my hopes for when the wars are all over is that Westeros will adopt Dorne's rules where women can inherit houses.

    Finally, I think we should keep in mind, when discussing whether or not Sansa is technically a Stark, that she can legitimately be considered a Lannister. I don't know how or if failure to consummate that marriage has any effect on that, but nobody really knows that detail except she and Tyrion (and Littlefinger). Before the series ends, I'd like to see some sort of resolution between her and Tyrion and, perhaps, her "Lannisterism" playing some part in the story for her benefit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay View Post
    Howland better show up at some point or what was the point to even point him out in the flashback. Why is Meera so important? This has to lead back to him at some point. Maybe he doesn't reveal the truth but it would be cool to see him at some point. Maybe if/when the North unites together to fight the white walkers Howland finally gets off his ass and helps them. House Reed still very much exists so it would be weird if some houses just stay hidden. Specially Howland. He doesn't seem like a bitch. I imagine he's older now but he was around Ned's age and Ned could still fight. Howland is probably 40-50.
    I'd love to see Howland. Meera is important to Bran because she's his protector, and she'll probably be his wife later on. I was really hoping Howland would show up in 610 to tell Jon. Maybe we'll still get a chance. I wish they would've made a pit stop to Greywater Watch after they went to Moat Cailin. I think Howland would've sided with them. But the show never did a great job of fleshing out the other Northern houses. In the books that was another added punch during the Red Wedding because so many important people from Northern houses died.

    On a brighter note, I'm really looking forward to
    Spoiler Spoiler:

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    Quote Originally Posted by day dreamer View Post
    I'd love to see Howland. Meera is important to Bran because she's his protector, and she'll probably be his wife later on. I was really hoping Howland would show up in 610 to tell Jon. Maybe we'll still get a chance. I wish they would've made a pit stop to Greywater Watch after they went to Moat Cailin. I think Howland would've sided with them. But the show never did a great job of fleshing out the other Northern houses. In the books that was another added punch during the Red Wedding because so many important people from Northern houses died.

    On a brighter note, I'm really looking forward to
    Spoiler Spoiler:
    Maybe the BWB run in to Howland and his people on the way up. As much as I want to see Howland and this sweet ass sigil:


    I also just really want to see The Neck. It's probably the most unique location in Westeros that we haven't seen yet (That I can recall)

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    I couldn't quote the old thread...
    @day dreamer - i hope they at least mention Bran too. Can you repost the latest finale spoilers in this thread again?
    @Jay - I agree that in this case Jon should be the one to rule. But we don't know what Sansa will get upset about. She may just be hurt because she is a true born Stark and the North is going to choose a bastard over her. She may not even begrudge Jon that but it could still hurt. It is tough being a woman nowadays and not getting all the same privileges or even pay, in some cases, just because you are female. I can only imagine what it was like back then, especially when she has essentially been told her whole life that she would have a truer claim than a bastard.

    Also, I know what you were saying and what you meant, but plenty of women die in childbirth and those same women lose their husbands and sons in these wars. I don't think just because you fight or can't fight (like Doran or even Bran) should determine your leadership abilities. Plenty of great fighters would make terrible leaders and plenty of people who can't fight (either for physical reasons or they are just lousy or don't have the stomach for it) can be great leaders.


    Also to clarify my earlier statement that Bear Mormont had the letter from Rob - I think technically that is speculation and not fact. I did look her up and in the history section of the below link i thought it interesting about what they said about her surname...since that discussion had come up before concerning the Stark name.

    http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Maege_Mormont


    If we don't see a grown Howland Reed on the show i am going to be pissed...especially if he shows up in the books!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay View Post
    Maybe the BWB run in to Howland and his people on the way up. As much as I want to see Howland and this sweet ass sigil:
    http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/...20160509124631

    I also just really want to see The Neck. It's probably the most unique location in Westeros that we haven't seen yet (That I can recall)
    Thank you @Jay for posting the House Reed Sigil. We've been looking for the perfect one for years for our bayou fortress Gatorfell which sits on marsh filled with gators & snakes. I emailed it to my husband & he loves it. This unintended consequence of your post is our serendipitous find. Many thanks.

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    Sure @Ranna156,

    Frikileaks...

    Spoiler Spoiler:

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