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  1. Back To Top    #31
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    Zombie Hoarder Huner with a T's Avatar
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    Damn totally forgot about the Holly bit... however to me he killed her since she was an enemy combatant during "war". In the sense of one of his wives I don't just see him killing them when he's (done, tired, fed up, angry) with them. That's what I meant about him not really harming women. It just seems like a more Negan thing, to me, for him to possibly exile them which would most likely end up with them dying. Maybe something similier to what Deanna did to whomever she kicked out of Alexandria. In the case of my theory however, some of the women would have survived and formed their own group.... Or as I also said they could be successful runaways.

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    Demon of War whargoul's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Huner with a T View Post
    Damn totally forgot about the Holly bit... however to me he killed her since she was an enemy combatant during "war". In the sense of one of his wives I don't just see him killing them when he's (done, tired, fed up, angry) with them. That's what I meant about him not really harming women. It just seems like a more Negan thing, to me, for him to possibly exile them which would most likely end up with them dying. Maybe something similier to what Deanna did to whomever she kicked out of Alexandria. In the case of my theory however, some of the women would have survived and formed their own group.... Or as I also said they could be successful runaways.
    I see what you are getting at and I agree. Negan is a villain and has many evil tendencies, but he isn't a psychopath that kills uncontrollably like the Governor or the Hunters. I don't see him just killing a woman or child because they are an inconvenience to him. Hell, outside of war, when has the comics shown him kill anyone? Glenn was a victim of war. Yeah, it hadn't started yet but he was used as an example. Spencer was killed to try and gain trust from Rick.

    I know I sound like a Negan apologist, and that is because I am. Given the actions committed by Rick and company last season, they have established them as a threat to a peaceful existence more than the Saviors. Even after Negan kills one or two of them in the premiere, what is the score?

    Saviors 1 or 2 (probably 2)
    Alexandria 40ish?

    I just don't see how Rick and company can be played as the good guys anymore. Glenn straight up murdered people in their sleep on the show. At least comic Glenn was still sympathetic when he was bashed into a pile of hamburger meat.

  3. Back To Top    #33
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    Remember that negans men did try and kill Sasha Abraham and Daryl when they were on the road first

  4. Back To Top    #34
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    Demon of War whargoul's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by jerrisb1 View Post
    Remember that negans men did try and kill Sasha Abraham and Daryl when they were on the road first
    Alicia Witt's character addressed that though. She said dude was an asshole and she understood why they did it, they were just defending themselves. When Rick and crew just straight up murdered all those people asleep in their bunkers is what made TF the villains of the upcoming war. Negan would probably have made an example out of one of them regardless, but we'll never know that given what was shown to us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by whargoul View Post
    Alicia Witt's character addressed that though. She said dude was an asshole and she understood why they did it, they were just defending themselves. When Rick and crew just straight up murdered all those people asleep in their bunkers is what made TF the villains of the upcoming war. Negan would probably have made an example out of one of them regardless, but we'll never know that given what was shown to us.
    No way are TF the villans. They are literally killing people who do nothing but kill, control and make people fear them. Glenn killed a man while he slept, but this man had pictures of his boss's victims on his wall with their heads bashed in. What kind of good person does that? Ricks group was only helping out another group that the saviors were terrorizing and threatening. TF did nothing wrong imo. If you are a bad guy then you deserve to go out any way possible.

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    Zombie Hoarder Huner with a T's Avatar
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    I for sure still think that Team Family are the good guys. Have all of them committed some kind of "villainous" act, sure, to an extent. However, I don't think that makes them bad guys. I mean the show is focusing on this group and how they have to survive (yes that means killing) but the characters have/ are constantly going through internal moral struggles where as a villain would not have such a difficult time with their moral struggles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by whargoul View Post
    Alicia Witt's character addressed that though. She said dude was an asshole and she understood why they did it, they were just defending themselves. When Rick and crew just straight up murdered all those people asleep in their bunkers is what made TF the villains of the upcoming war. Negan would probably have made an example out of one of them regardless, but we'll never know that given what was shown to us.
    I get what you're saying and there is a point to be made because that was definitely not a heroic act or even self defense. And, ultimately, they did make a big mistake in attacking that outpost because that enabled Negan to find out about ASZ and come after them sooner than he would have otherwise - especially with Carol and Maggie being captured and Carol giving them so much information trying to talk Paula into letting them go. However, we do know that Negan would have come after them and murdered someone regardless. That's what Negan does - or has the saviors do for him. Once they started exploring and scavenging in that direction, it was inevitable for them to run into another group - or groups - of saviors so it was also inevitable that Negan would eventually find ASZ. Attacking the outpost was a big mistake, but also a lesson for the group because it was a potential turning point. Had it been completely successful - i.e. Paula's crew didn't manage to escape, take a couple of hostages, and pass on information to other saviors - that could have put the group on an entirely different path. As it stands, they've realized that this is not who they are. Being paid assassins didn't really sit well with any of them - even Rick had to keep reminding himself they were doing it for food. Realizing the consequences with Negan finding them and retaliating this way only reinforces that lesson and, ultimately, is what will prevent them from becoming villains.

  8. Back To Top    #38
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    Banned User glennfan93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meesha1971 View Post
    I get what you're saying and there is a point to be made because that was definitely not a heroic act or even self defense. And, ultimately, they did make a big mistake in attacking that outpost because that enabled Negan to find out about ASZ and come after them sooner than he would have otherwise - especially with Carol and Maggie being captured and Carol giving them so much information trying to talk Paula into letting them go. However, we do know that Negan would have come after them and murdered someone regardless. That's what Negan does - or has the saviors do for him. Once they started exploring and scavenging in that direction, it was inevitable for them to run into another group - or groups - of saviors so it was also inevitable that Negan would eventually find ASZ. Attacking the outpost was a big mistake, but also a lesson for the group because it was a potential turning point. Had it been completely successful - i.e. Paula's crew didn't manage to escape, take a couple of hostages, and pass on information to other saviors - that could have put the group on an entirely different path. As it stands, they've realized that this is not who they are. Being paid assassins didn't really sit well with any of them - even Rick had to keep reminding himself they were doing it for food. Realizing the consequences with Negan finding them and retaliating this way only reinforces that lesson and, ultimately, is what will prevent them from becoming villains.
    How do you know Negan's group found the ASZ from "Carol giving Paula too much information"? Negan's group knew about the ASZ when they re-captured Dwight.

  9. Back To Top    #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by glennfan93 View Post
    How do you know Negan's group found the ASZ from "Carol giving Paula too much information"? Negan's group knew about the ASZ when they re-captured Dwight.
    No, Dwight didn't know about ASZ specifically. He knew Daryl - and Daryl told him he came from a good community - but that was all Dwight knew. Daryl never told him anything specific so Dwight didn't know the name of the community, where it was located, other people's names, etc... And Dwight didn't really believe Daryl at that time. That's why he took Daryl's stuff and ran. So all Dwight could reveal when he was recaptured was that there was 1 guy out there who claimed to be part of a community. He couldn't tell them where the community was, what it was called, how many people lived there - or anything that would help them find it. Daryl was going to take them there, but he didn't tell them anything that would allow them to find it on their own. Likewise, Dwight did not know anything about people from Rick's group killing saviors.

    Paula knew more and was in contact with other saviors the entire time she was holding Carol and Maggie hostage. She witnessed the attack on the outpost and saw everyone who participated so she could give descriptions. She got names from Carol and Maggie - particularly, Rick's name and that he was the leader from Carol. Carol also told them that their people had killed T's group - they had known that T's group was killed and where, but not who had done it. So Negan could be told that this 1 group, led by a man named Rick, was responsible for the deaths of everyone in T's group as well as every savior in that outpost and the ones that had been sent to get Paula's crew. That's what made Negan determined to find them. They killed more saviors than he was comfortable with so he wasn't just looking for another community to take supplies from. He was also looking to punish Rick for the saviors his people had already killed. And he knew exactly how many and where because Carol told Paula and she was able to pass that on to other saviors before she was killed. Dwight did not know any of that information.

  10. Back To Top    #40
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    🌻🌼🌺🌷🌸 Mia's Avatar


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    Can't wait to see what Carol and the creepy house is all about. And what her and Daryl do when he is at the house with her.

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