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  1. Back To Top    #21
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    Queen Rose of The Kingdom Carl's Right Eye's Avatar

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    Negan is not a rapist. He may be a misogynist and a polygamist but his women are trading sex for something. Rapists give you no choice - it is an act of violence, not sex. Trust me. I've been there.

    We've seen no indications he ever forced anyone to have sex with him. I believe his killing Davy solidifies the fact that Negan does not approve of rape.

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    Sitting here chewing on some Mike and Ike's and reading over this thread. I can't stand this buddy-buddy, non-confrontational SHIT on such a serious issue as rape. Usually this topic evokes passion because the opposing sides view each other's beliefs as problematic in real life, giving them actual motivation to seek and destroy arguments. Enough with the weakness.

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    Governor Şωɛɛȶ Ɗҽʂƚɾυƈƚιɳ's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl's Right Eye View Post
    Negan is not a rapist. He may be a misogynist and a polygamist but his women are trading sex for something. Rapists give you no choice - it is an act of violence, not sex. Trust me. I've been there.

    We've seen no indications he ever forced anyone to have sex with him. I believe his killing Davy solidifies the fact that Negan does not approve of rape.
    Thank you hun. ♡

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ZombieBek View Post
    He's a rapist. He must like having sex with women who don't want it. Rape is about power more than the actual act itself. Negan stands for power. These women are given a choice but it's not really a choice. Either become part of the harem for a better life for yourself or your family or doom yourself for a life not worth living.
    It's interesting to me to read some of the guys on here don't think it's rape. I wonder is Negan's harem consisted of men instead of women if they'd feel differently.
    But that isn't the case though. They just have to work hard like everyone else instead of being taken care of and given the easy road.

  4. Back To Top    #24
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    We could arrange to have you carried. AdamUpBxtch's Avatar


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    Rose worded it perfectly. Negan is a polygamist, but a misogynist to a lesser degree since he seems to have women in high ranking positions that he trusts, Arat for example who shot Olivia in Episode 8. The thing is in the show they have sort of ruined Negan's anti-rape sentiment and turned him into a hypocrite of sorts, when it comes to the Sherry situation anyways. The other females may just be there because of the perks that come with being one of his "wives".

    Now when it comes to the Tina situation I have actually looked this up and done some research. It wasn't that Negan was denying Tina insulin because he wanted to force her into becoming his wife. The price of Insulin was just pretty high, Negan has an economy of sorts going with these points & earning them for work you do, so money essentially, and she wasn't gonna work hard enough to get it so Negan offered her a wife position in exchange for her getting Insulin for free. Tina didn't want to do that so Dwight, Tina, & Sherry stole a bunch of the communities' medical supplies and fucked off. Now, I could see stealing just insulin and leaving, but stealing a shit ton of other medical supplies that others in the community might need? That's fucked up honestly especially when a lot of them are just regular people trying to survive, but I ain't gonna completely condemn them for that seeing as they probably needed more than just insulin for a journey on foot in a zombie apocalypse and they wanted to survive while escaping Negan. I just see this as a bad situation all around, and not one any of them was expecting to happen. Is Negan a scumbag for having this "wife" system in the first place? Yes. Does it make him a rapist because women are willing to sleep with him in exchange for better services & goods than the average joe there? No.

    The parallels between Rick & Negan are there despite what many may think. Both men want to bring back civilization, Negan is just going about it the wrong way. They're two sides of the same coin. Rick wants to rebuild civilization through hope & togetherness, while Negan thinks fear & discipline is the only way. Negan believes the strong should be defending the weak, thus the whole "protection" thing he has going on, but the losses he has suffered have caused his good intentions to become twisted and warped into what we see when he is introduced. He believes that his horrific methods of keeping his people in line, which involve burning the faces of rule breakers and using fear to keep people subjected, are to justify a greater good, and he does stick by his own code of ethics.

  5. Back To Top    #25
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    Deadweight BankaiTobi's Avatar
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    The point is not "Negan's psychological coercion isn't a form of rape", the point is "Negan THINKS his form of rape isn't rape, but draws the line at forceful stereotypical rape". What if I told you that characters can have many different layers and can have flaws just like any other? Especially if they're a fucking main antagonist.

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    But everyone knew her as Nancy Beatrice's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by BankaiTobi View Post
    The point is not "Negan's psychological coercion isn't a form of rape", the point is "Negan THINKS his form of rape isn't rape, but draws the line at forceful stereotypical rape". What if I told you that characters can have many different layers and can have flaws just like any other? Especially if they're a fucking main antagonist.
    Your first sentence is what I was trying to say when I wrote this:

    Finally, there are some men who think, wrongly, that just because she doesn't fight means she consents. Add that attitude to Negan's obvious narcissism, and you have someone who could not fathom that any woman would not jump at the chance to be one of his chosen ones. He can, however, appreciate the concept of rape when it comes to other men - he just can't see himself as a rapist. Because of that, Negan's abhorrence of rape does not, in his mind, translate to what he is doing.
    You put it more succinctly.

    I agree with your second sentence, as well.

    @Bork wrote:

    Sitting here chewing on some Mike and Ike's and reading over this thread. I can't stand this buddy-buddy, non-confrontational SHIT on such a serious issue as rape. Usually this topic evokes passion because the opposing sides view each other's beliefs as problematic in real life, giving them actual motivation to seek and destroy arguments. Enough with the weakness.


    I can't get terribly confrontational over this because I see merit in both sides. I do see what Negan's doing as a form of rape, but I also see the prostitution aspect of it in terms of the volunteers. I think, to Negan, it's all the same. Do I want to clutch my pearls over it? Not particularly. For one thing, it's a television drama series and not an edition of Dateline ID and, as such, allows me to sit back as a dispassionate observer to speculate on what I'm seeing and what I think about it. This aspect of Negan's storyline provides a rare opportunity for that kind of thought process in a show whose major dilemmas involve killing/not killing in times where not killing is not a realistic option.

    As distasteful as the extortion is, in cases where life and death underlie a volunteer's decision, you see an Amber who, despite "volunteering" to secure medicine for her sick mother, cheated on Negan and, when confronted with it tearfully told him "I love you." Negan's reply? "Of course you do." In his narcissistic mind, how could she not? His belief that his wives love him doesn't not make him a rapist, but unlike the stereotypical rapist which he detests who might also operate under the delusion that his victims "wanted it" or even were in love with him, Negan's wives are reinforcing his delusion. They can't risk Negan thinking he's forcing them which would result, at best, in their being put back at square one with their needs.

    As cringeworthy as this all is, it's also the only chink we've seen in Negan's armor. He can't tolerate "infidelity". He has to believe beautiful women love him so much they're willing to share him just to be close to him. Instead of getting all cringed out over it, though, I sit here thinking of how that could make him vulnerable because it's a damned television show depicting what we see on so many other TV shows, whether it's in your face like Game of Thrones or sanitized like Law and Order - Special Victims Unit. I get to watch it, say "oh how terrible", and then turn it off.

    I'll save my outrage for real life, if and when it's needed. Perhaps in tomorrow's Water Cooler.


  7. Back To Top    #27
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    Problem Child Nareen's Avatar
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    Negan has set up a system that allows him to be a rapist.

    He has established a social and economic system designed to benefit himself only, with certain advantages granted to his minions to keep them loyal. His rules are only the rules because he says so; there is no inherent validity to them. He has no “right” to do what he does.

    There is the elite group and there are the slaves and the former is free to take anything from and do anything they please to anyone in the slave class (apaprently aside from raping them). People are not free to leave and if they try to do so will be hunted down and killed. Nobody but Negan has ownership of their own labour or even their own bodies because Negan can rape, torture, mutilate and kill at will. If you are corrupt and ruthless enough you can belong to the elite class and have a better life. Otherwise you are a slave, whether you live in the Sanctuary itself or in another community. Some young and pretty women have the pretense of a third option: to agree to let Negan fuck them.

    It doesn’t matter if women initially agree to prostitute themselves to save the lives of their loved ones or even make their own lives easier. That is a consensual, commercial arrangement. However these women are not free to leave Negan, unless they are willing to suffer punishment themselves or see their loved ones hurt. No one is allowed to leave the Sanctuary. Sherry’s sister had to flee, die or agree to let Negan rape her. Amber agreed to let Negan rape her in order to save her mother. Obviously it was not what she wanted, since she loves another man. Dwight was sent after Sherry and I don’t think it was just about Daryl or Negan wouldn’t have killed the doctor. If sex if coerced, it’s rape.

    Negan may be deluding himself that he is rebuilding civilization, protecting other communities and is against rape but it is a self delusion, one that some of the viewing audience has apparently fallen for too.

    Too bad they didn’t make Negan a more nuanced, layered and deeper character. He might have been somewhat interesting.

  8. Back To Top    #28
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    Sharpshooter Bork's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beatrice View Post
    I can't get terribly confrontational over this because I see merit in both sides. I do see what Negan's doing as a form of rape, but I also see the prostitution aspect of it in terms of the volunteers. I think, to Negan, it's all the same. Do I want to clutch my pearls over it? Not particularly. For one thing, it's a television drama series and not an edition of Dateline ID and, as such, allows me to sit back as a dispassionate observer to speculate on what I'm seeing and what I think about it. This aspect of Negan's storyline provides a rare opportunity for that kind of thought process in a show whose major dilemmas involve killing/not killing in times where not killing is not a realistic option.


    I can respect that. I just find it odd that people these days are more compelled to debate in threads about Norman Reedus's relationships (at least two posters came back just for that) than they are a thread about rape. I understand that some can remain dispassionate on the subject, but with the forum's demographics I don't expect most to be able to do that. It's a topic that makes even the most reticent people go up in arms, or at least it used to.

    As distasteful as the extortion is, in cases where life and death underlie a volunteer's decision, you see an Amber who, despite "volunteering" to secure medicine for her sick mother, cheated on Negan and, when confronted with it tearfully told him "I love you." Negan's reply? "Of course you do." In his narcissistic mind, how could she not?
    His belief that his wives love him doesn't not make him a rapist, but unlike the stereotypical rapist which he detests who might also operate under the delusion that his victims "wanted it" or even were in love with him, Negan's wives are reinforcing his delusion. They can't risk Negan thinking he's forcing them which would result, at best, in their being put back at square one with their needs.
    Please elaborate on Negan being delusional. I saw "of course you do" as Negan implicitly reminding Amber that part of her job as a wife was to create a fantasy. It's a qualification, and wives who fail to meet it can be replaced.

    As cringeworthy as this all is, it's also the only chink we've seen in Negan's armor. He can't tolerate "infidelity". He has to believe beautiful women love him so much they're willing to share him just to be close to him.
    Might there also be more practical reasons for Negan keeping his wives faithful? Safety aside, Sherry's pregnancy test may indicate that Negan wants children.


  9. Back To Top    #29
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    Sicario Rolexus's Avatar

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    I have to agree with @Nareen: Negan is more akin to a human trafficker who forces women into sexual servitude as a matter of survival--certainly their own as well as that of their loved ones. Negan's wives can't "divorce" him. Sanctuary is Hotel California where "you can check out anytime you like but you can never leave." Everyone under Negan's roof is enslaved & he has absolute power to decide where you work & in what capacity. While there is a similarity in that Negan's wives & IRL sex workers receive quid pro quo for services rendered, a prostitute may quit her vocation and choose her clientele. Negan's wives have no such choice--other than escape, punishment and/or death which is the same choice women used in sex trafficking have. And like rapists, sex traffickers are all about violent, abusive power over another human being.

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