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    Walker fruitloop's Avatar
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    Negan is a Rapist

    I'm tired of reading all these character assessments that claim negan has some principles such as "he hates sex without consent and she has to say yes." He's a rapist himself. Coercion for survival/quid pro quo are still sexual assault and sexual abuse. None of those women really wants to be there. They are buying survival for themselves or loved ones. I do not believe any of the Saviors are allowed to leave, either. He refers to the women as "pussy" and other demeaning terms.

    Go ahead....call me a troll or a feminazi.....this, to me, is an example of what some guys just don't get about rape.....Darabont and Kirkman blew it here.

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    Demon of War whargoul's Avatar

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    I wouldn't say rape, if anything I see it as a form of prostitution. They are selling their body to someone that for gains. He does not force them down and into bed, he kind of buys them. Yes they can leave, but they go back to a shitty existence so they sell themselves for a better place in the Sanctuary. If he would hurt them and force himself on them, I would be in your corner. He is more of a pimp, and I don't mean that in a complimentary modern hip-hop way.

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    Withholding food or medicine for themselves or a loved one unless someone has sex with him does not constitute consensual sex. Most of the women who are slipped date-rape drugs aren't violently assaulted - that doesn't change the fact that it's rape.

    Sherry agreed to save her life and Dwight's. That doesn't make it consensual sex. I see no difference in that and say, someone carjacks a couple and threatens to kill the husband if the wife doesn't agree to have sex - the cops wouldn't say she had "Consensual Sex." This is how most children are violated....their perpetrator usually threatens to harm someone they love, or a pet. I see no difference. People can't leave the Sanctuary once they're inside.

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    Governor John Dixon's Avatar

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    They've fucked up the entire Negan against rape aspect for the screen. These writers go for cheap thrills now. God forbid they actually have some kind of antagonist who's got some morals. They've turned Negan into a glorified, psychotic, carnival barker.
    Spoiler Spoiler:


    AMC and Cartman, I mean, Kirkman, gave JDM a leash that was way too long cause they wanted the "ultimate antagonist". Problem is, no one likes seeing a direct, comic translation of a character that works better in a comic than on screen. Add in the fact that the writers give him ZERO morality that an audience can believe...And you get a Negan that people hate. And threads like this. The character deserves way more than what these fool writers have given it.

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    Agree with that..... this Negan reminds me of Trump after the apocalypse...."grab 'em by the pussy" ...... The Governor, on the other hand, was dialed way down......

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    But everyone knew her as Nancy Beatrice's Avatar

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    I agree Negan's a rapist, but wasn't Negan written in the comics as one whose harem included women with living husbands? Is there any way TV Negan differs from comics Negan in terms of his source and use of wives?

    Frankly, I have no objection to the straightforward depiction they've done of Negan in this regard. This show has toned down events of rape that would surely exist in a post apocalyptic world based on knowledge of history and what happens routinely in other cultures existing in the world in which we currently live. It's a terror that any woman would have to be on her guard against in a lawless society or one in which rape is accepted, for sure. This side of Negan is one that enhances not only his creep factor but should set off creep alarms for every man in his group, including Simon, because not one of them is doing anything to stop his practice of taking other men's wives and/or extorting sex for medicine.

    Are you saying that you wish the show had not included Negan's harem?

    Without excusing his practice of extorting women into his harem, we can't say they were all extorted into it. The wife with short brown hair that Negan sent to Eugene with the blonde and redhead said she was a volunteer. I'd be guessing she isn't happy with Negan, since she was wanting the poison pill for Negan; but she did not have to volunteer. As @whargoul pointed out, there's an element of prostitution in play, as well.

    Finally, there are some men who think, wrongly, that just because she doesn't fight means she consents. Add that attitude to Negan's obvious narcissism, and you have someone who could not fathom that any woman would not jump at the chance to be one of his chosen ones. He can, however, appreciate the concept of rape when it comes to other men - he just can't see himself as a rapist. Because of that, Negan's abhorrence of rape does not, in his mind, translate to what he is doing.

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    Yes, he is a rapist. I'm tired of people saying it's not "technically" rape.
    If someone gives you two options - death or sex, they aren't actually giving you choice. They're giving you the choice of murder or rape. This does not give consent. It's like saying when someone gives you a choice that either you die or your loved one dies, if you pick yourself I guess they didn't murder you? Jesus. C'mon.

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    Demon of War whargoul's Avatar

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    Did he ever give the sex or death ultimatum though?

    Maybe I'm remembering the dialogue wrong, but my impression of his harem is that if they aren't with him, they just have to work harder amongst the rest of the Sanctuary civilians. If he said they would be harmed in any way than you are easily dealing with a rape scenario, I just personally see it as prostitution.

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    Sharpshooter Bork's Avatar
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    For my own sake, I'll just copy and paste two posts that I made elsewhere and let people respond if they want. I started arguing about this on a different site but forgot about it for quite some time.

    Post #1
    It's somewhat of a complicated subject, but when you interpret Negan's rule (especially the point system) in the context of government it's hard to say he's raping anyone at all. Prostitution is an alternative choice for the women who can't ascend in an established meritocracy. Certain items, such as medicine, are probably highly priced on the points system because they are a) scavenged b) finite and c) not produced. They're living at a subsistence level in some areas, and for that the strictness can't be helped -- nor can the consequences (i.e. death) be easily prevented. What if there were other people in The Saviors who needed the same medicines that Sherry's sister needed, for example? What if items are also priced based on their demand, or to the advantage of the people that put the work in to acquire them? You can say that encouraging prostitution is amoral, or that the points system is unequal, but rape is far-fetched.

    The explanation for Sherry is much easier. Sexual coercion implies a sequence of events where the rapist gives the victim no freedom from greater consequence unless they give sex. Sherry saw that Dwight was going to be killed and offered to be Negan's wife in return. Negan didn't create a dilemma where Sherry HAD to be his wife or else Dwight would die; he was merely convinced. Attention to detail is important.

    Post #2 (responding to someone):
    Negan tightened the noose on that family and was (is) a tyrannical leader. I don't dispute that. The point of contention is labeling his marriage to Sherry as rape, rather than him being persuaded. Rape by coercion requires a sequence in which the rapist communicates to the victim that sex is what they must give, or else. Negan didn't hold Lucille over Dwight's head and tell Sherry that the only way for him to live was if she married him; no, Sherry offered, and he accepted. Whether or not her idea of Negan's character led to that offer is separate from rape. I think that the issue for many people is the belief that happiness is a necessary component of sex, and that consent indicates this in some form. Maybe a crude analogy will help. If a criminal holds a knife to someone's throat and the victim offers sex to be free, that victim is not one of rape.

    Take this definition for example:
    Consent is an act of reason and deliberation. A person who possesses and exercises sufficient mental capacity to make an intelligent decision demonstrates consent by performing an act recommended by another.

    Detail in bold.

    Or this one:
    In the context of rape, submission due to apprehension or terror is not real consent. There must be a choice between resistance and acquiescence. If a woman resists to the point where additional resistance would be futile or until herresistance is forcibly overcome, submission thereafter is not consent.

    Resistance and submission are the operative words here. The rapist sets a condition where you have to resist sex, or creates a situation where you must submit to sex.


    forcing Sherry to "marry" him or Dwight's death
    She offered.
    I just can't help but see Negan as foul. He uses power and control to hold them down; he doesn't have to physically.
    But is he a rapist?

    I enjoyed the rest of your post but just want to zero in on this topic, so I cut out the other content.

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    Sharpshooter Dead Dee's Avatar
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    Negan rules through intimidation, fear and favor. The more useful you are to him, the more favor you get. Eugene is a prime example of this. I'm sure he hates Negan, but is liking the perks he's getting in exchange for his skills. He's also terrified of him and is doing whatever he needs to do to save his own skin. To me, it's similar with his "wives", they're getting special privileges and riches in exchange for sex. It's kind of like women who marry a rich guy for the security and lifestyle even if they hate the sex. The difference is their husbands won't burn half a guy's face off if they cheat with them. It's a fine line between prostitution and rape. The one wife I see as truly being forced and miserable is Amber. The rest seem to accept their roles as I'm sure there are other male Saviors who don't like what Negan does, but go along so they can eat, be protected and live a somewhat comfortable lifestyle.

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