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  1. Back To Top    #21
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    Governor KerryGold's Avatar
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    I just learned about Cofer Black, former CIA, Blackwater vice-chairman, and one of Mitt Romney's advisors on his failed 2012 campaign, who just happens to sit on the board of Burisma, and was also there during Hunter Biden's time. So strange that.

  2. Back To Top    #22
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    But everyone knew her as Nancy Beatrice's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quiet One View Post
    Here's a bit of an article that appeared in a local paper here: the author is a political commentator who keeps his political leanings to himself & has been critical of both sides of politics in his articles: "When I was growing up & learning about democracy the US was always held up as a bright & shining example of what government of the people, by the people & for the people could truly mean."..."But America's once great & enviable democracy last week crossed into dangerous territory" (talking about not calling witnesses & the hypocrisy of the Republicans being angry at the Democrats relying on second hand hearsay rather than first hand testimony, then refusing to call said first hand witnesses)..."One question naturally arises: why have Republicans, faced with mounting evidence of Trump's increasingly dictatorial behaviour, ignored their oaths of office & are now serving as White House spin doctors"..."Because tribalism & blind partisanship have clouded Republicans' judgement. They see this barely literate & petulant billionaire as anointed by God, & they will do anything & everything to protect him."

    Which I guess sums up how I feel about the whole thing. I don't think anyone was really expecting him to be removed from office, but I do feel like they haven't even had a proper trial which I think is extremely wrong. It's apparently the only impeachment trial to have no witnesses called - how can a real verdict be reached if all the evidence hasn't been examined? And if the Republicans were so sure he was innocent, why would they refuse the testimony of first hand witnesses? What were they afraid of?
    First of all, the Senate did hear witnesses. The house brought selected clips of testimony from several of those it questioned during the house's investigation. The president's counsel, during the presentation of the president's defense, played portions of the same testimony from the same witnesses that the house managers cut from their presentation because that testimony showed that there was no evidence, only conjecture and conclusions which are not admissible as evidence in any court of law in this country.

    Secondly, we heard much about the senate's role as judges/jury. Many times during arguments the house asserted there can be no trial without witnesses. As mentioned above they proferred the cherry picked and edited testimony of many witnesses. As president's counsel argued, prosecutors don't come to a trial, which this was, and tell the judge they need more evidence. Secondly, in no jury trial in this country are the judge and/or jury asked to conduct their own investigation. They are present to hear and consider evidence presented, weigh that evidence, and render a verdict.

    Thirdly (more like Second and a Halfly), the house managers repeatedly asserted, both during arguments and the little press conferences that occurred during breaks, that a trial can't be held without witnesses. President's counsel offerred rebuttal to that in terms of what I wrote in "Secondly". House managers NEVER addressed that. When it was their turn to speak, they went right back and made the same assertion without presenting any argument to President's counsel's rebuttal of that point.

    Fourthly, house managers kept me awake until 2:00 in the morning that first night (and then had me banging my head for the rest of the proceeding) by repeating that their evidence was clear, convincing, and overwhelming; yet in almost the same breath demanding the Senate call more witnesses. Repetition of an assertion does not make it true, and telling the Senators that if they don't do house managers' bidding they are obstructing justice, participating in a coverup, and chicken shits. They can't claim their evidence is clear, convincing, and overwhelming when their evidence is conjecture and hearsay. I watched the house hearings and most of the "testimony" played by house managers represented coaxed answers to loaded questions. Upon cross examination in the house (which is what President's counsel played in rebuttal), the "witnesses" testified that they had no first hand knowledge. Telling adult people that their refusal to something demanded of them says something horrible about those refusing is the basis of the old nursery story about the Emperor having no clothes. That is bullying and is properly countered only by standing up to them, which the Republican senators did.

    Mitch McConnell explained what the rest of us who see the Democrats for who they are and what they're doing, and will continue to do, see. They made an attempt to tie up the Senate in an election year in hopes of ridding the Senate of its Republican majority. The Dems knew EXACTLY what they were doing and for Schiff and crew to feign indignation when their lies and power play went nowhere was just the frosting on their farcical cake. Pelosi sat on those articles of impeachment and then demanded to dictate rules of the proceeding to the Senate, which was not the house's place; so house managers made the end run to make the Senate Republicans look bad because "they refused to call witnesses". I was and am still stunned that people, Republican or Democrat, do not get this.

    So your author is right - American government lost its luster when the Democrats made impeaching Donald Trump their raison d'etre.

    Your author is full of shit.

  3. Back To Top    #23
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    Maggies ripped and shredded uterus Anton69's Avatar
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    The ďauthorĒ and I use that term loosely isnít American so he or she should shut the fuck up and ask why the the filthy aussies have arrested 24 people in connection with the wildfires but will not release identification.
    the days of kowtowing to these canít get rights are over. America elected the loudmouth at the end of the bar for a reason and now itís time for him to really change things up.

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    Lookout Golvina's Avatar
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    Trump Derangement Syndrome is real and this kid's reaction to the news proves it.


  5. Back To Top    #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by KerryGold View Post
    I just learned about Cofer Black, former CIA, Blackwater vice-chairman, and one of Mitt Romney's advisors on his failed 2012 campaign, who just happens to sit on the board of Burisma, and was also there during Hunter Biden's time. So strange that.
    And here's the thing - Republicans and many independents in this country were furious about the obstruction of the Obama administration over fast and furious, the Benghazi coverup, and the refusal to investigate Hillary Clinton's role in meddling in the 2016 election. I'm not saying that one administration's bad deeds justifies those of another - whataboutism - and I'm not saying Trump did anything wrong. Boneheaded, maybe, but wrong? No. Trump's base has been screaming about this since Obama's administration, and the left and media did nothing. Trump has promised to "drain the swamp" and he's been getting no cooperation from American agencies charged with that, so I'll cut him some slack in asking the President of a country, whose chief prosecutor was fired because he was looking into a company on whose board sat Hunter Biden, to look into a matter in which he has first hand knowledge.

    And, yes, Joseph Cofer Black, Romney's national security advisor during his 2012 campaign, sat on the Burisma board since 2017.

  6. Back To Top    #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golvina View Post
    Trump Derangement Syndrome is real and this kid's reaction to the news proves it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZOZP88iLz4
    Ahhh. Stay classy.

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    Maggies ripped and shredded uterus Anton69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beatrice View Post
    Ahhh. Stay classy.
    How come i never seem to run into these types. I’ve had run ins with the black Israelites, hippie douchebags, and crassholes but I would love to meet this at the local supermarket

  8. Back To Top    #28
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    But everyone knew her as Nancy Beatrice's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anton69 View Post
    How come i never seem to run into these types. I’ve had run ins with the black Israelites, hippie douchebags, and crassholes but I would love to meet this at the local supermarket
    Unfortunately, I've got them in my own family. It hurts, but it has only strengthened my resolve that the left, what it stands for, and its goal in destroying our culture and our country are worthless POS's that must be stood up to. Let them cry they are offended and don't feel safe. Welcome to our world.

  9. Back To Top    #29
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    Crotch Grabber ZombieBek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beatrice View Post
    First of all, the Senate did hear witnesses. The house brought selected clips of testimony from several of those it questioned during the house's investigation. The president's counsel, during the presentation of the president's defense, played portions of the same testimony from the same witnesses that the house managers cut from their presentation because that testimony showed that there was no evidence, only conjecture and conclusions which are not admissible as evidence in any court of law in this country.

    Secondly, we heard much about the senate's role as judges/jury. Many times during arguments the house asserted there can be no trial without witnesses. As mentioned above they proferred the cherry picked and edited testimony of many witnesses. As president's counsel argued, prosecutors don't come to a trial, which this was, and tell the judge they need more evidence. Secondly, in no jury trial in this country are the judge and/or jury asked to conduct their own investigation. They are present to hear and consider evidence presented, weigh that evidence, and render a verdict.

    Thirdly (more like Second and a Halfly), the house managers repeatedly asserted, both during arguments and the little press conferences that occurred during breaks, that a trial can't be held without witnesses. President's counsel offerred rebuttal to that in terms of what I wrote in "Secondly". House managers NEVER addressed that. When it was their turn to speak, they went right back and made the same assertion without presenting any argument to President's counsel's rebuttal of that point.

    Fourthly, house managers kept me awake until 2:00 in the morning that first night (and then had me banging my head for the rest of the proceeding) by repeating that their evidence was clear, convincing, and overwhelming; yet in almost the same breath demanding the Senate call more witnesses. Repetition of an assertion does not make it true, and telling the Senators that if they don't do house managers' bidding they are obstructing justice, participating in a coverup, and chicken shits. They can't claim their evidence is clear, convincing, and overwhelming when their evidence is conjecture and hearsay. I watched the house hearings and most of the "testimony" played by house managers represented coaxed answers to loaded questions. Upon cross examination in the house (which is what President's counsel played in rebuttal), the "witnesses" testified that they had no first hand knowledge. Telling adult people that their refusal to something demanded of them says something horrible about those refusing is the basis of the old nursery story about the Emperor having no clothes. That is bullying and is properly countered only by standing up to them, which the Republican senators did.

    Mitch McConnell explained what the rest of us who see the Democrats for who they are and what they're doing, and will continue to do, see. They made an attempt to tie up the Senate in an election year in hopes of ridding the Senate of its Republican majority. The Dems knew EXACTLY what they were doing and for Schiff and crew to feign indignation when their lies and power play went nowhere was just the frosting on their farcical cake. Pelosi sat on those articles of impeachment and then demanded to dictate rules of the proceeding to the Senate, which was not the house's place; so house managers made the end run to make the Senate Republicans look bad because "they refused to call witnesses". I was and am still stunned that people, Republican or Democrat, do not get this.

    So your author is right - American government lost its luster when the Democrats made impeaching Donald Trump their raison d'etre.

    Your author is full of shit.

    You go girl! Thank you for spelling it out like this. The Dems have shown their crazy from the beginning, it’s hilarious. I really want to punch that bitch Nancy P in the face so bad for the disrespect she showed Trump. Hate the man I get it but respect his position. He’s the President. She needs to fuck off, die, I don’t care but the bitch needs to go. Someone in her position should be professional and show some class. All that bitch did was prove to the country what a disgrace she is.

  10. Back To Top    #30
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    Governor SnuffVille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quiet One View Post
    Here's a bit of an article that appeared in a local paper here: the author is a political commentator who keeps his political leanings to himself & has been critical of both sides of politics in his articles: "When I was growing up & learning about democracy the US was always held up as a bright & shining example of what government of the people, by the people & for the people could truly mean."..."But America's once great & enviable democracy last week crossed into dangerous territory" (talking about not calling witnesses & the hypocrisy of the Republicans being angry at the Democrats relying on second hand hearsay rather than first hand testimony, then refusing to call said first hand witnesses)..."One question naturally arises: why have Republicans, faced with mounting evidence of Trump's increasingly dictatorial behaviour, ignored their oaths of office & are now serving as White House spin doctors"..."Because tribalism & blind partisanship have clouded Republicans' judgement. They see this barely literate & petulant billionaire as anointed by God, & they will do anything & everything to protect him."

    Which I guess sums up how I feel about the whole thing. I don't think anyone was really expecting him to be removed from office, but I do feel like they haven't even had a proper trial which I think is extremely wrong. It's apparently the only impeachment trial to have no witnesses called - how can a real verdict be reached if all the evidence hasn't been examined? And if the Republicans were so sure he was innocent, why would they refuse the testimony of first hand witnesses? What were they afraid of?

    They’ve never had anything to be afraid of and no reason to work with Democrats. This whole thing happened because liberals still haven’t gotten over the butthurt of Hillary losing.

    I’m not so sure you understand how this all works as there is no law anywhere saying they have to call witnesses

    Democrats lose again and are handing Trump the next 4 years

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