View Poll Results: Was Rick right to leave Carol behind?

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  • Yes - she's dangerous and can't be trusted

    131 36.09%
  • No - she was a great asset to the group

    204 56.20%
  • Undecided

    28 7.71%
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  1. Back To Top    #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will View Post
    Im not trying to start an argument here or anything, but what has Daryl got to do with the original question?
    Rick didn't get the chance to tell Daryl straight away because bothe of them were doing separate runs and when they were together that was when the governor showed up, it was simply a fact of him not getting the chance to tell Daryl so that doesn't "prove he was in the wrong" at all, also I fail to understand your last point "they didn't tell Daryl until after TG eps proved this also". What does that prove because they way I interpret that is that Rick should of told Daryl before the solo governor episodes. Yes? If that's the case then that would be TPTB as Rick has no control over the episode order.

    Can I also point out that in general there was a hierarchy at the prison which everybody knew:

    Rick - the core leader of the group and the person to bring everybody to the prison and make a home of it.

    The council - as Rick was focusing on other things they were the group of people that made decisions, we all knew that Rick was still above them as both Carol and Daryl (who were council members) both talked about Rick having to make decisions again and that he can't be a farmer (him kicking Carol out was the first decision in bringing him back from being a farmer).


    Everybody else - they were all members of the community that had been put together, not that they weren't important to decision making but they were less important then Rick and the council members.
    ^^This'

    The council only existed because Rick needed a break, but his word was still law. He continued to be the absolute leader. Some people have difficulty to understand this.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nana View Post
    I am staying out of this one but I do believe it is going to come back in season 5. Looking forward to what the characters think about Rick's decision. I wish Herschel was around for this.. and it will be interesting to see if someone takes his spot in this...looking at it very morally... and what does that mean.
    As we saw in the episode when Rick told Hershel, Hershel stood beside Rick and got sick to know what Carol was doing. Logical! Hershel was risking his life to try to help the sick people and Carol was killing them. Anyone with two fingers of forehead would side with Rick.

  2. Back To Top    #342
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    Banned User Dyone's Avatar
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    I'm tempted to say "yes", because whatever means getting rid of Carol is ok in my book. However, it would've been interesting to see what would've happened if Rick had told everyone back at the prison.
    Mass hysteria and mob mentality would've taken care of Carol in a matter of minutes. She should be thankful she landed with her butt in exile (not that she had accepted it, because she was going back to the prison when the Gov attacked).

    Rick was protecting everyone, especially his kids. Maggie agreed with him, I'm pretty sure Hershel was fine with the decision too (hey, he was with the sick risking his life to provide them some care and comfort...not stabbing them in the head), Ty wasn't the murderer's biggest fan, Daryl wanted to put a bolt into the murderer's head...

    Rick, without knowing so, ended up saving Carol's life. Collateral damage to a good decision I guess.

  3. Back To Top    #343
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    Governor meesha1971's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScifiSpirit View Post
    I really agree with your thoughts. But I"m trying to remember the details of the episode more. Was rick *on* the council when he kicked Carol out? If i remember correctly, he wasn't. While I think kicking her out was a good call, I don't fundamentally agree that it was "Rick's call", if that distinction makes sense to you. He even said to Carol that he was thinking of "his" family, not the group. So he made that decision on his own, but there was a council in place for decisions like that and he neglected it. Same with Carol. She made the decision *on her own* to deal with Karen and David, when she was on a council and it should have been everyone's decision. I saw those two parallels with the choices they made.

    Regardless, in the end, I do think it was the right decision.
    I just finished rewatching season 4 so the details are pretty fresh in my mind. Rick was not attending council meetings, but everyone still considered him a leader. Both Hershel and Daryl were trying to convince Rick to get involved again. Hershel in particular kept telling Rick when the council was meeting and asking him to come. They all understood that Rick had needed a break and felt that he had earned that break, but they also felt that it was time for him to get involved again and that he was ready to do so.

    In regards to the murders specifically, it was actually the council who gave that responsibility to Rick - ironically, at Carol's insistence. They were going to focus on dealing with the flu and decided to have Rick investigate and deal with the murders. Shortly after that, the council was taken out of the equation. Glenn and Sasha both got sick and went into quarantine, Hershel went into quarantine to try to save lives, and Daryl went on the run to the vet college 50 miles away with Michonne, Tyreese, and Bob. At that point, there was no council to consult about Carol committing the murders. It was down to Rick and Maggie to deal with everything at the prison on their own. Rick had no choice but to accept the council's decision that he deal with the murders because there was no one else left to do so. Rick did what the council asked him to do before they were taken out of the equation.

    When Rick told Carol he was also doing that for himself, he was specific in saying that was if the others died. If they couldn't save those people and it came down to just him and his children, he wouldn't want Carol there. He wouldn't trust her around his children because of the way she acted that day. He believed the others would feel the same and not want Carol there either. He believed Tyreese would be a threat to Carol once he found out the truth - and he had every reason to believe that with the way Tyreese had reacted. Rick had to consider the possibility that it would come down to that. Daryl and the others should have returned the night before, but they didn't so he had to consider the possibility that they might never return. He had to consider the possibility that Glenn, Sasha, and the others who caught the flu might die. He had to consider the possibility that Hershel might die. A lot of factors went into Rick's decision.

    After watching it all again, I still feel that Rick made the right decision. There really were no other viable options beyond banishing Carol or exacting the death penalty. Taking Carol back to the prison after the way she acted that day simply was not an option. Whether she intended to or not, Carol showed herself to be a threat. With everyone sick or gone, it just was not possible for Rick and Maggie to deal with guarding a prisoner on top of taking care of everything that needed to be done at the prison, trying to manage the walkers at the fences, repair the fences, etc...

  4. Back To Top    #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by meesha1971 View Post
    I just finished rewatching season 4 so the details are pretty fresh in my mind. Rick was not attending council meetings, but everyone still considered him a leader. Both Hershel and Daryl were trying to convince Rick to get involved again. Hershel in particular kept telling Rick when the council was meeting and asking him to come. They all understood that Rick had needed a break and felt that he had earned that break, but they also felt that it was time for him to get involved again and that he was ready to do so.

    In regards to the murders specifically, it was actually the council who gave that responsibility to Rick - ironically, at Carol's insistence. They were going to focus on dealing with the flu and decided to have Rick investigate and deal with the murders. Shortly after that, the council was taken out of the equation. Glenn and Sasha both got sick and went into quarantine, Hershel went into quarantine to try to save lives, and Daryl went on the run to the vet college 50 miles away with Michonne, Tyreese, and Bob. At that point, there was no council to consult about Carol committing the murders. It was down to Rick and Maggie to deal with everything at the prison on their own. Rick had no choice but to accept the council's decision that he deal with the murders because there was no one else left to do so. Rick did what the council asked him to do before they were taken out of the equation.

    When Rick told Carol he was also doing that for himself, he was specific in saying that was if the others died. If they couldn't save those people and it came down to just him and his children, he wouldn't want Carol there. He wouldn't trust her around his children because of the way she acted that day. He believed the others would feel the same and not want Carol there either. He believed Tyreese would be a threat to Carol once he found out the truth - and he had every reason to believe that with the way Tyreese had reacted. Rick had to consider the possibility that it would come down to that. Daryl and the others should have returned the night before, but they didn't so he had to consider the possibility that they might never return. He had to consider the possibility that Glenn, Sasha, and the others who caught the flu might die. He had to consider the possibility that Hershel might die. A lot of factors went into Rick's decision.

    After watching it all again, I still feel that Rick made the right decision. There really were no other viable options beyond banishing Carol or exacting the death penalty. Taking Carol back to the prison after the way she acted that day simply was not an option. Whether she intended to or not, Carol showed herself to be a threat. With everyone sick or gone, it just was not possible for Rick and Maggie to deal with guarding a prisoner on top of taking care of everything that needed to be done at the prison, trying to manage the walkers at the fences, repair the fences, etc...
    Ah! Excellent point about how the council put Rick in charge of the investigation. I knew that but completely overlooked it. That makes me feel even better about Rick's decision. It WAS his call to make. If Carol had not done what she did on her own and took matters into her own hands the way she did, I would view the situation differently. For me, personally, that was the deal breaker. She had an opportunity to share with Daryl her intentions. And even if not, she could have and should have said something to Tyrese while he was getting a beating. And while Rick was getting a beating too. I would respect her more if she owned up to her actions then, but her silence tells me she was overwrought with sorrow and guilt. And that tells me that even she herself questioned her actions. Which I don't like. It's one thing to not be sure of what you're doing and just trust your gut, but if you're gonna take a life, you damn well better be 100% sure of what you're doing! And because I believe she wasn't, that's another reason why I feel it was not her call to make and it was not a decision she should have made alone.

  5. Back To Top    #345
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    🌻🌼🌺🌷🌸 Mia's Avatar


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    Quote Originally Posted by Inertia View Post
    I'm tempted to say "yes", because whatever means getting rid of Carol is ok in my book. However, it would've been interesting to see what would've happened if Rick had told everyone back at the prison.
    Mass hysteria and mob mentality would've taken care of Carol in a matter of minutes. She should be thankful she landed with her butt in exile (not that she had accepted it, because she was going back to the prison when the Gov attacked).

    Rick was protecting everyone, especially his kids. Maggie agreed with him, I'm pretty sure Hershel was fine with the decision too (hey, he was with the sick risking his life to provide them some care and comfort...not stabbing them in the head), Ty wasn't the murderer's biggest fan, Daryl wanted to put a bolt into the murderer's head...

    Rick, without knowing so, ended up saving Carol's life. Collateral damage to a good decision I guess.
    And she returned the favor for helping Ty take care of Judith.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Quote Originally Posted by meesha1971 View Post
    I just finished rewatching season 4 so the details are pretty fresh in my mind. Rick was not attending council meetings, but everyone still considered him a leader. Both Hershel and Daryl were trying to convince Rick to get involved again. Hershel in particular kept telling Rick when the council was meeting and asking him to come. They all understood that Rick had needed a break and felt that he had earned that break, but they also felt that it was time for him to get involved again and that he was ready to do so.

    In regards to the murders specifically, it was actually the council who gave that responsibility to Rick - ironically, at Carol's insistence. They were going to focus on dealing with the flu and decided to have Rick investigate and deal with the murders. Shortly after that, the council was taken out of the equation. Glenn and Sasha both got sick and went into quarantine, Hershel went into quarantine to try to save lives, and Daryl went on the run to the vet college 50 miles away with Michonne, Tyreese, and Bob. At that point, there was no council to consult about Carol committing the murders. It was down to Rick and Maggie to deal with everything at the prison on their own. Rick had no choice but to accept the council's decision that he deal with the murders because there was no one else left to do so. Rick did what the council asked him to do before they were taken out of the equation.

    When Rick told Carol he was also doing that for himself, he was specific in saying that was if the others died. If they couldn't save those people and it came down to just him and his children, he wouldn't want Carol there. He wouldn't trust her around his children because of the way she acted that day. He believed the others would feel the same and not want Carol there either. He believed Tyreese would be a threat to Carol once he found out the truth - and he had every reason to believe that with the way Tyreese had reacted. Rick had to consider the possibility that it would come down to that. Daryl and the others should have returned the night before, but they didn't so he had to consider the possibility that they might never return. He had to consider the possibility that Glenn, Sasha, and the others who caught the flu might die. He had to consider the possibility that Hershel might die. A lot of factors went into Rick's decision.

    After watching it all again, I still feel that Rick made the right decision. There really were no other viable options beyond banishing Carol or exacting the death penalty. Taking Carol back to the prison after the way she acted that day simply was not an option. Whether she intended to or not, Carol showed herself to be a threat. With everyone sick or gone, it just was not possible for Rick and Maggie to deal with guarding a prisoner on top of taking care of everything that needed to be done at the prison, trying to manage the walkers at the fences, repair the fences, etc...
    I bet if her killing David and Karen would have saved your favorite characters life you would be praising her. Has this horse not been beaten to death about a million times. Yes we know Carol screwed up and made a bad decision. She knows she screwed up and felt bad about it. So why oh why can you not let it go.
    Last edited by Mia; September 3rd, 2014 at 10:48 PM.

  6. Back To Top    #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScifiSpirit View Post
    Ah! Excellent point about how the council put Rick in charge of the investigation. I knew that but completely overlooked it. That makes me feel even better about Rick's decision. It WAS his call to make. If Carol had not done what she did on her own and took matters into her own hands the way she did, I would view the situation differently. For me, personally, that was the deal breaker. She had an opportunity to share with Daryl her intentions. And even if not, she could have and should have said something to Tyrese while he was getting a beating. And while Rick was getting a beating too. I would respect her more if she owned up to her actions then, but her silence tells me she was overwrought with sorrow and guilt. And that tells me that even she herself questioned her actions. Which I don't like. It's one thing to not be sure of what you're doing and just trust your gut, but if you're gonna take a life, you damn well better be 100% sure of what you're doing! And because I believe she wasn't, that's another reason why I feel it was not her call to make and it was not a decision she should have made alone.
    Exactly. Rick had to factor all of that into his decision. He waited until the next day, but Daryl and the others had not returned and he couldn't put it off any longer. He had to accept that they might not return and that Sasha, Glenn, and Hershel might die. He gave Carol every possible chance to explain herself and prove she could be trusted, but she failed miserably and only proved herself to be a threat. There was no council to fall back on and the last thing the council did was ask Rick to deal with the murders. That was part of the purpose in all that - to force Rick to step back up as a leader and get involved again.

  7. Back To Top    #347
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    I'm surprised this is still going, certainly didnt ex.pectoral to be commenting in it what 6 months after starting the thread.

    Its so interesting to get everybodies opinions/thoughts/perspectives on the original question, considering that most of us have probably watched the season back to ourselves again and how people have changed their minds, added points to their original thoughts etc...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by meesha1971 View Post
    I just finished rewatching season 4 so the details are pretty fresh in my mind. Rick was not attending council meetings, but everyone still considered him a leader. Both Hershel and Daryl were trying to convince Rick to get involved again. Hershel in particular kept telling Rick when the council was meeting and asking him to come. They all understood that Rick had needed a break and felt that he had earned that break, but they also felt that it was time for him to get involved again and that he was ready to do so.

    In regards to the murders specifically, it was actually the council who gave that responsibility to Rick - ironically, at Carol's insistence. They were going to focus on dealing with the flu and decided to have Rick investigate and deal with the murders. Shortly after that, the council was taken out of the equation. Glenn and Sasha both got sick and went into quarantine, Hershel went into quarantine to try to save lives, and Daryl went on the run to the vet college 50 miles away with Michonne, Tyreese, and Bob. At that point, there was no council to consult about Carol committing the murders. It was down to Rick and Maggie to deal with everything at the prison on their own. Rick had no choice but to accept the council's decision that he deal with the murders because there was no one else left to do so. Rick did what the council asked him to do before they were taken out of the equation.

    When Rick told Carol he was also doing that for himself, he was specific in saying that was if the others died. If they couldn't save those people and it came down to just him and his children, he wouldn't want Carol there. He wouldn't trust her around his children because of the way she acted that day. He believed the others would feel the same and not want Carol there either. He believed Tyreese would be a threat to Carol once he found out the truth - and he had every reason to believe that with the way Tyreese had reacted. Rick had to consider the possibility that it would come down to that. Daryl and the others should have returned the night before, but they didn't so he had to consider the possibility that they might never return. He had to consider the possibility that Glenn, Sasha, and the others who caught the flu might die. He had to consider the possibility that Hershel might die. A lot of factors went into Rick's decision.

    After watching it all again, I still feel that Rick made the right decision. There really were no other viable options beyond banishing Carol or exacting the death penalty. Taking Carol back to the prison after the way she acted that day simply was not an option. Whether she intended to or not, Carol showed herself to be a threat. With everyone sick or gone, it just was not possible for Rick and Maggie to deal with guarding a prisoner on top of taking care of everything that needed to be done at the prison, trying to manage the walkers at the fences, repair the fences, etc...
    This comment has left me speechless! You have a habit of doing that to me @meesha1971

  8. Back To Top    #348
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  9. Back To Top    #349
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    The thing I found wrong about it is what he said to justify it.
    Carol doesn't have a murderer's mentality- she genuinely thought it was for the good of the group, "saving lives" by making difficult decisions. But the main drive for her killing them was really that she wanted to keep her two new "adopted daughters" safe. I believe Carol would do anything to keep children safe and that's not necessarily a bad thing even though not all children are a "good" (innocent) thing- ie Lizzie.
    The bigger part of Rick's reasoning was that if it came down to him, Carol, and his children- he wouldn't want Carol around, he wouldn't trust her. To me that makes the least amount of sense possible. Carol is literally exactly who you would want around your children if you wanted your children to survive, because she would go at lengths to do nearly anything to ensure a child's survival- especially a child she considered close as family as you see with her and how she treats Judith.
    There are a lot of parallels between Rick and Carol, personality-wise. Both want to protect their children at all costs. Both at one point taught a child/children how to use weapons against walkers. That and Rick's known her since the beginning, knows what she's been through, may even feel a little guilty about the Sophia situation. The situation with Judith/Carol and Sophia/Rick are similar in ways. What Carol said about Sophia at the greenhouse might've been off-putting to Rick but he should realize that she had to cope somehow and she needed to focus on Lizzie and Mika now.
    But to leave her alone after she had just opened up to Rick about being with abusive Ed rather than being alone, seems a bit harsh of him to do to her. Even if she realizes how strong she is now, strength doesn't really cancel out loneliness. He could've brought her back, it was a prison, she could been punished by being held captive until she could regain trust or make up for it in some way but I'd imagine that the survivors at the prison would have the same split opinions about it that we do.
    It really depends on your belief of if there is actually any form of "justifiable killing". It depends on your view on real life situations - self defense killings, death row, spouses killing abusive spouses, lapses in sanity, etc. But apply that to this fictional survival situation, where what you have to do to survive or help others survive is more brutal without the consequences of the law and punishment, but more so punishment in the form of inner turmoil to your own personal moral standing and sanity and the risk of losing it or becoming too comfortable doing things like that that were deemed wrong before the ZA.
    There's a theme to TWD that's sacrifices made to survive. There's no way of telling if her actions were just a loss of two or a saving of a group.

    That being said, she most certainly could've done something instead of murdering them. Separation and monitoring the sick while making sure only two or three people were to cycle out shifts and they wouldn't come into contact with the still well people, killing the sick once they died or turned. However I also think Carol was thinking in the same way a person thinks when someone they care about is on life support. The decision to "pull the plug" to end suffering or keep them alive because you hope for recovery. The difference is that Karen and David were able to speak for themselves so maybe she could've talked about it with them as well.

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    I don't know if I ever posted in this thread yet, I feel too lazy to go back and look, but if I did I probably said yes Rick was right because back then I was being stupid and thought Carol showed no remorse for the killings. I feel different now.

    I understand why Rick banished her. I really do, however, I now think he should have brought her back to the prison and let her admit to everyone and express her guilt which she did have. Let them work together as a group. Tyreese obviously wouldn't have killed her as he had the chance to do that in The Grove and didn't. Let her come back, own up to her mistakes and regain their trust. Other than the killings, Carol didn't do anything to make them distrust her. Regaining their trust can - and I believe will - be done.

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