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  1. Back To Top    #21
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    One-Hand Villain 2pink's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john5xc View Post
    It baffles my mind that people seriously think he was offering peace with the gov. He was trying to save people. He never forgave the gov. Amen on the rest.. Cool look at things
    I do think he was offering peace. It was done under dramatic circumstances. But I do believe he offered peace. I believe it cause of Hershel doing the same thing with the governer and everything rick said in that speech was the same thing Hershel said in 30 days without an accident. The governer standalone episodes were brought out to make viewers see him from another angle. And since I could be wrong. Even not redemption for the governer. But even his army,That whole speech was great except for the fact that it didn't apply to someone who he thought of as family. It was brought to these people and that's why my Hershey smiled because he was proud that rick got to that point. My point of view only. But that's why it bothered me

  2. Back To Top    #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2pink View Post
    I do think he was offering peace. It was done under dramatic circumstances. But I do believe he offered peace. I believe it cause of Hershel doing the same thing with the governer and everything rick said in that speech was the same thing Hershel said in 30 days without an accident. The governer standalone episodes were brought out to make viewers see him from another angle. And since I could be wrong. Even not redemption for the governer. But even his army,That whole speech was great except for the fact that it didn't apply to someone who he thought of as family. It was brought to these people and that's why my Hershey smiled because he was proud that rick got to that point. My point of view only. But that's why it bothered me
    They just highlighted how sick he was in my mind but human. He needed those people to believe it and I think he meant it but if the gov happened to fall onto a knife he'd be glad.

  3. Back To Top    #23
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    Governor meesha1971's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john5xc View Post
    No change in 6 months is abrupt.
    We aren't talking about a change that occurred over 6 months. We're talking about a change that occurred overnight. Nothing happened in those 6 months that would be a plausible catalyst for Carol to go from being a compassionate, nurturing person who believed in honesty and giving people every chance to survive to a cold, unsympathetic killer. Nothing happened in those 6 months that would be a plausible catalyst for Carol to go from being able to share happy memories about Sophia with Beth and explain why she stayed with Ed to pretending she never had a daughter and claiming she does not know why she stayed with Ed - and preferring to see all of that as happening to someone else. They lived in peace for 6 months with no major disasters that would cause Carol to change from who she was at the end of season 3.

    you keep throwing out cold blooded implying she has not shown remorse. Which is blatantly wrong. She's not a cold blooded killer by any definition but if we don't agree there then my points could only be disagreed with. No disrespect but I won't waste either of our time then on that topic.Without medical care she was right about certain death by the flu. I'm not disagreeing that she made the wrong choice. I'm disagreeing with your analysis of her character because I feel it ignores at least half of her screen time. If believing a deadly outbreak could spread further isn't plausible motive... right or wrong then what is?
    The murders were cold blooded because they were not done in malice or anger. That was - to Carol's mind - a practical solution to a problem. A cold, clinical decision that she directly told Rick she does not regret or feel sorry for. She still wants to believe murdering two innocent people was necessary in spite of knowing that it only made the situation worse. Their lives did not matter to her at all because she chose to believe that they were going to die regardless of what they did - including getting medical treatment. Carol told Rick they were wasting their time trying to find medicine for people who were just going to die anyway. She didn't want to believe that any of those people would survive even if they got treatment.

    The writers removed the motive of trying to stop the flu by showing on screen that Carol was told the flu had already spread and the best they could hope for was to keep it contained to D block. Everyone in D block got sick around the same time - as Hershel explained to Glenn, the symptoms would show up at different times because every person's body will deal with the virus in different ways. There's no set time table for such things. Patrick was the first shown to develop symptoms, but that doesn't mean he was the first to get sick. The most likely origin was infected walkers at the fences - the cull crew was continually being exposed to contaminated blood so they were probably the first to actually catch the virus. Carol knew that murdering Karen and David would not prevent anyone else from getting sick - and spreading massive blood trails around that cell block certainly wasn't going to help because that only spread the contamination further. She also knew that Karen and David would not be a threat to anyone even if they did die and turn - those rooms had doors so they wouldn't have been able to get out. Anyone going into the uncontaminated corridor to visit or treat them would be able to see right away if they had turned because of the large window next to the door - which would be reinforced glass since they were in a prison. And that was Carol's idea - she recommended that during the council meeting. Quarantine and isolation were valid solutions to both issues and we were shown that Carol was aware of that on screen. That's why those lame excuses do not hold water.

    Carol murdered Karen and David because she chose to believe that they were going to die regardless of treatment. She didn't want to waste resources taking care of the sick people that she decided were just going to die anyway - and, as we saw with the way she treated Sam and Ana, she didn't want anyone at the prison who could not contribute or be useful. She convinced herself that she was doing them a favor and being merciful by killing them before they suffered. She played God with their lives. That was not Carol's choice to make. It was Karen and David's choice. They chose quarantine and treatment because they wanted to live - and they had the same chance of survival as the other 14 people who recovered from this flu.

    There is no plausible motive for murder. There is no rationalizing that or justifying it. It was not a kill or be killed situation. Karen and David were not a threat to anyone because they were isolated. They did not threaten or attack Carol to force her to kill them in self defense. They did not threaten or attack anyone else to force Carol to kill them to save someone's life. They were victims of an illness and helpless to defend themselves against Carol. The issue here is not whether or not Carol committing murder was wrong. The issue is the fact that Carol refuses to admit that it was wrong. She refuses to apologize for her betrayal because she still wants to believe that it was necessary and refuses to acknowledge that she only made the situation worse. She told Rick that she would do it all over again. She criticized the others for not doing it themselves. She asked Rick to lie for her and keep it a secret so she would not have to deal with any consequences. Carol did throw a temper tantrum and spilled their water supply - that only shows anger. We can only guess as to what she was angry about. Maybe she was angry at herself at that point, but by the time she went on that run with Rick, she had convinced herself that she did the right thing and did not regret it. Carol doesn't feel any remorse now because she does not want to. She basically did the same thing Shane did throughout season 2 - making lame excuses and rationalizing her actions to herself to avoid feeling any remorse or regret. Carol is lying to herself as much as she is to everyone else because she doesn't want to accept that what she did was wrong and only made things worse.

    The problem here is the writing. The writers wanted to create another situation of internal conflict similar to what happened with Shane vs. Rick in season 2 - only this time it's Carol vs. the group. The problem was that nobody in the main group would fit for that role. Not Carol - not any of them. Those characters were developed on a different path than Shane. They care about others and they're only going to kill in self defense when they have no other choice. They've been though too much together not to trust each other and they know keeping secrets can get you killed - a major theme of season 2. Trying to show that Carol stopped trusting her friends to the point that she would lie to them, manipulate them, and try to keep secrets from them was a major contradiction right off the bat. Adding cold blooded murder to that - for no other reason that the people being sick - was another major contradiction. That's not who Carol is. That's not who any of them are. They might kill in self defense and be willing to fight an enemy like the governor, but none of them would ever murder two innocent people just because they were sick. Not Carol. Not any of them. Carol would have been in quarantine with Hershel fighting to give those sick people every chance they could get to survive. That's why this plot arc has so many plot holes. Making Carol the murderer was a major contradiction in character development from the start. That's what happens when writers let the plot dictate what happens instead of the characters. Contradictions and plot holes are inevitable.

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